So why do you think it is this way today? What is it in today's environment that makes people (including kids) so much more violent (especially in certain countries)?

I think that it mainly has to do with the way they were coming up and the areas in which they resided, their upbringing, and their vulnerability from possibly hanging with the wrong crowd of children.

Also, the fact that there more than likely was no man in these boys' lives, they pretty much had the run of their households. Typical. Their dads probably flew the coop and have abandoned them and written them off. Had there been one in each of their lives, maybe, just maybe, these boys would not have become such rotten apples to the core!

Lionel was written up so many times in school that his school was about to wash their hands of him once and for all.

Their history of getting into trouble, run-ins with the law and their dangerous & bazar behavioral problems at school, which in Lionel's case, didn't exactly make him an award-winning student of the year. Both boys almost had the same problems, except that Lionel was not a sexual predator that we know of.

Most of or all of the boys that I mentioned on the previous page more than likely had behavioral problems in school, especially Lionel, for instance.

Like Sherman, Lionel used his shear power and shear brute force to batter, bruise, beat, stomp on, punch and overpower his playmate, Tiffany Eunick, age 6. He abused his handling of her and made her pay dearly, the ultimate price, for her engaging in what was supposed to have been considered just ordinary gentle hosreplay, as he called it. Think that he would have done that to a boy his own size or a grown man? More than likely not if he didn't think he could.

Tiffany came to the house with Lionel and his mom that night because she was babysitting with Tiffany while her mom went to her job and worked the night shift. After dinner, Lionel and Tiffany watched TV. Lionel wanted to watch wrestling, which he did. Lionel was an avid wrestling fan of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. But his love and admiration for wrestling has caused him to maim and kill a sweet adorable kind and caring innocent little girl!!!

After presuading Tiffany to let him show her some wrestling moves which was only supposed to be a little mild horseplay, Lionel went too far. He picked up the small 48-lb girl, gave her a bear hug and then dropped her on the edge of a table, banging her jaw. He then proceeded to pummel her with hard blows and stomped and beat her. He was like a mad monster! Frankenstein!!! His overweight 166-lb body was too much for the girl to bear! The girl's injuries were quite similar to those of a person the same size and weght falling from a second or third-floor window!


Both Lionel's victim Tiffany and the girl who Sherman attacked were age 6. Lionel and Tiffany knew each other for about a month. There seemed to be no problems with them getting along with each other in the past.

We know the same thing took place with Sherman against his victim. But this is where the similarity ends a little; Lionel viciously murdered his little victim, Sherman almost murdered his victim. He hoped that she would die, but she didn't. Lionel did not sexually assault his victim,

Sherman sexually assaulted his. Yet and still, very little if anything, is known about Sherman's past, other than him having increasingly turned into a promiscuous raging sexual predator! But Sherman also was a schoolyard bully! He aslo had behavioral problems at home and in his neighborhood, and when he was denied the opportunity to have sex, he was even more evil, wicked mean and nasty!!

But like Lionel, Sherman also was a schoolyard bully and terrorized his family and neighborhood. Lionel was infactuated by wrestling and wanting to wrestle with an unsuspecting victim. Sherman was infactuated by sex and wanted to have sex with a girl, and he was only 13, so badly that he was willing to pay an 11-year-old girl for it! And umm, just where did he get a hold of $50.00 from to want to pay for sex?!!

Both boys bullied, tortured and terrorized their victims. Call it a bad seed, being wrongfully raised or the road to them becoming very dangerous and violent career criminals, but these two young boys certainly had no regards for the law!

Lionel was banned from school multiple times for his awfully bad and repulsive behavior and his mean & nasty temperment. He became an arrogent vicious self-centered obnocious schoolyard bully who liked to pick fights a lot. He ruled the younger kids with an iron fist and used his then overweight 166-lb frame to intimidate and frighten smaller kids! He poked fun at, harassed and frightened kids weaker than him who were too afraid to fight back. Anyone older than him, he wouldn't touch or mess with. Increasingly much too rambunctious, obnocious and arrogent for the school officials to deal with. He had serious mood swings. One minute, he would be cheerfully and playful, the next minute, he would turn on someone as though they were his worst enemy like a raging monster!! He would lie on people, steal from them and do other bad things. His grade levels were failing miserably - all the pure sign of a vicious violent and savage killer child in the making!!

His track record alone speaks for itself and would tell the cruel chilling truth that he would someday become a raging monster and dispicably maim and kill someone!

These boys pretty much did what they wanted to and when they wanted to. Children only know what they learn, and somday, maybe these two and the others will hopefully get theropy and counsiling for their murderous behavior.

At his arraignment and trial, Lionel cried pittifully and emotionally (there are pictures to prove it), possibly thinking and realising that what he has done was terribly wrong and evil and that he's being held accountable for it. People were there to console and comfort him in his time of need.

Sherman, on the other hand, showed no remorse. He just sat and smirked at his victim and her mom now and then. When asked if he knew or was aware that he might be put away for a very long, long, long time for the dispicable and unspeakable crime that he has done, he acted as though he didn't care and said; "She started it by throwing the rock at me.". So he was not changing his attitude at all! But a younger child around 6 to 8 or so would have said the same thing if or when he gets in a fight with someone. Sherman could give a crap less what ANYONE thought or thinks of him!

Lionel and Sherman were not above the law then, and they are not above the law mow. They are not afraid of anyone and they'll back down from no one! And BTW, Lionel DID assault his friend right after the pizza robbery when the person had asked Lionel to leave! Proof that Lionel and Sherman don't listen to anyone but themselves. They've ALWAYS gotten their way. They both became monsters who were completely set in their ways and won't change.

But there is always still hope for them both, I think. God tells us not to hate. So we shouldn't hate these boys for their murdering ways, but just hope that for them both, there may be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Not to be left out of this is Lionel's mom who is also in hot water with her former friend for not physically going downstairs to see just what Tiffany was making so much noise about. She's being blamed by Tiffany's mom for neglecting to protect Tiffany from the harm that was being inflicted by her then 12-year-old son! That she's always been making excuses for Lionel whenever he did wrong.

If Tiffany were alive today, she would have been 15 years old now!! She would have been a beautiful young girl. She'll NEVER know what it's like to be in her teens, to enter high school, to meet a nice boy and start dating him, to go to college, to get married and have kids of her own!! Her young innocent life was cut so short by an evil wicked mean and nasty 12-year-old boy who preyed on and used her as a guinea pig because he wanted so bad to wrestle with someone. To death!!!

This shows just how much Lionel was a vicious arrogent 12-year-old killer bully who enjoyed beating up on smaller weaker kids. He used his then overeight body and girth to gain an unfair advantage over Tiffany. He knew that she was not able to fight him off.

Well we all have been in that situation Daquan, and use our fists or a stick if one is to hand - personally, you guys have the edge cos with a baseball bat (my favorite game incidentally (Redskins Yay!)) you are king - well untill someone pulls out a gun or a kaleshnikov - then its dive for cover...


No problemo!

Hasta la vita, Daquan!


terabyte

Probably the best thing Lionel, Sherman and the other boys who are all in the same boat can do right now, is to tell their stories to other kids who are on the road to becoming convicts like them.

Remember the documentary show Scared Straight?

Well, they can help stop OTHER pre-teens and teens from potentilly destroying THEIR lives by talking to them candidly in person, up front and right to their faces point blank and scare them straight!!

This, I think, would be the only way to deter other potentially deadly kids from committing the same tragic horrible crimes!

What I meat was more a general question about what is making more people (including kids) violent these days as compared to say 10, 20, 50, etc years ago? And why does it seem worst in the USA? Some people will blame video game violence, others will blame US gun laws, lack of discipline in the home, too much TV, etc. I was curious to get your take on this, given the earlier conversations in this thread.

I can see one place we seem to disagree, that I think i have mentioned before, but after your latest replies it seems relevant to mention again. You seem to have the opinion that ALL people are inherently good, and just suffer from upbringing/environment, which leads them astray. I believe MOST people are inherently good (well at least, not evil) and a product of their environment. But you mention in passing a term which I think highlights well the small minority who don't fall into that category, that is "bad seed". That term to me indicates that there was something inherently wrong with the from the start, the seed being the sperm/egg. These are people that can turn into true sociopaths (sociopath is a word not to be used lightly and really only applies in very specific cases, its not just a general term for habitual criminals, as some people use it).

Another thing you highlight about these specific boys that makes me wonder, is that they always got their own way - their bullying was always successful. What I wonder (and this relates to an extent to the first issue I raised about society in general changing) is how they would have turned out if at some point in their life they were 'sat on their ass' by someone they tried to bully.

Kids themselves like the likes of Lionel and Sherman choose their own path. Their actions will certainly have consequenses.

They'll either be law-obiding citizens or they'll be repeat rulebreakers and throw out every rule in the law book and end up being hardened crimials.

Just look at how many times Lionel screw up and had expected the judge to pardon him. Again, Lionel is a classic case of this.

At only 12 years old, still a baby in the eyes of the law, he saw his opportunity to viciously attack and beat that poor innocent little girl to death as though she was his property!!

Lionel was like a mad pit bull or a hungry shark! He left the girl lying on the floor crying and in excrutiating pain and he told her to stop crying like a baby!! He left her to die after the dispicable and horribel crime he committed on her, as he went back to watching the TV for a while.

When he noticed the girl not breathing, that is when he went upstairs to get his mom for help, but it was alresdy too late! Tiffany Eunick died as the result of a then rutless mean & nasty 12 -year-old bully who savagely beat up, bruised and traumatized her. A bully who would beat up on defensesless kids smaller than himself. He'll have to live with this for the rest of his life.

Now if he did that at only 12, what will happen when he gets out, meets a girl, dates her and decides to go ill on her?!

How, just how exactly, does a 12-year-old become so criminally violent and dangerous that he has the desire to seriously maim and kill someone?!

One answer also could be that by him watching wrestling, it might have triggered him to become so rough with the girl that it's like he was in what is quite similar to that of a shark feeding frenzy where he just wouldn't stop beating and manhandling the little girl until she was doomed, very weak and almost comatose!!

As in the case Eric, Sherman and John Odgren who attacked their victims for seemingly no apparent reason at all.

In January '07, a 16-year-old boy, John Odgren, had attacked, stabbed and murdered his 15-year-old classmate for seemingly no apparent reason!

Further investigation revealed that the boy suffers from Ashberger's Syndrome, a form of autism. The boy is STILL being helg in custody until his case is heard in court.

Eric, Lional, Sherman, Christopher and John all waited very patiently until their unsuspecting victims were all alone with them and that no one else was around - proof that they all KNEW that what they did was unforgivable, and that had they been in anyone's presence, they more than likely would have been stopped. Also, that they knew just exactly when to lash out and inflict unspeakable horror on their innocent victims! These boys all waited for the perfect time to commit their evil acts of rape and murder.

Christopher Pittman is the boy who, at only the tender age of 12, murdered his sleeping grandparents at their home one night while he was staying with them. Because of his then fairly small size, he was considered to be a deadly little boy.

He got hold of a gun, put it to their mouths that blew their brains out.

He says that he allegedly was on some medicine (Zoloft) which made him hard to get along with others and gave him mood swings and made him commit the double murder. He was tried as an adult, was convicted and sentensed to life in prison.

What a crock. Sounds like another sociopath that belongs behind bars.

He IS behind bars. He's doing life.

He has his own website, and he has launched a campain to get the authorities to let him go. He wants to be set free.

Not sure if it's gonna happen.

There ARE some beneficial programs at the St. Louis County Jail in which Sherman can sign up for and participate in and get some help if he so chooses to. They should try to encourage him to do so.

Go here; St. Louis County Jail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

In the High-Profile Immates Processed section, Sherman is listed there near the bottom of the page, as the youngest person to date to be admitted there at age 13.