Interesting thing about where the whole thing came from is it seems to have 'evolved' somewhat. The first real emergence of the baggy pants in rap culture as I can recall was MC Hammer in the video for 'You Can't Touch This', I would guess mid-80's from memory. Now those pants were SUPER baggy. But he didn't wear them around his knees, and I would say looked somewhat stylish (not my style, but stylish nonetheless). Maybe the affordable way to get super baggy pants was to wear pants 10 sizes too big, which inevitably lead to the wearing them round your knees phenomenon (just guessing).

The issue raised by the example of the 13 year old boy, ad being afraid to confront him is really a separate one. It's about (off the top of my head - there may be other issues too):
1. Respect for others ('elders' or not is 100% irrelevant in my book)
2. Prevalence of gun culture in the society and availability of guns.
3. Portrayal of belligerence and violence (rather than simply rebelliousness) in popular culture.
4. Concentration of the above issues in urban rather than rural areas

It's a difficult one to handle, to be sure - due more than anything else to the gun culture factor. Here in Australia, the above factors do exist too, but seem to be significantly less (except the gun culture factor, which really only exists in the underworld here, rather than mainstream). As a result, if one felt strongly enough about an offensive buttock, one could say something to the kid without fear of being shot (mind you, knives are rapidly growing in our youth culture here, though as I can see it, they are mainly using them on each other).

My reaction when I see someone making themself look like an idiot by trying to conform is generally internal - a mental roll of the eyes and perhaps a little laugh. I don't feel at all offended and have no need to complain or ask them to change their behaviour.

Hey...well here in the states..its a free for all, so if you walk up to someone and say..hey kid pull your pants up, I am starting to hurl..the immediate response will be profanity unlimited with no recourse. If you politely walk up to the boy and say something the response will more than likely be..the kid flipping you the bird..

You see here in America moral decline has been on the rise for the last 25 years..heck maybe years before that..Kids will pass through what they will with the here and now generation..sometimes its a sickening site..but with all do respect what goes around comes around..we have to keep loving them through it all some how some way..you can attract more flies with honey that you can vinegar. Its the now generation..we still have to respect it, but while we are in it..just try to exemplify dignity and good moral conduct as much as possible with the teens...this too shall pass..they will be us someday..looking back and saying..Dang..what was I thinking? discrediting them will only cause rebellion.


Sherri

I spent most of a recent year in the USA, but it was mostly in a small town, so not representative of living in a big city over there I am sure.

I understand what you say about it being the general state of things. It raises the question though - are all kids like this? I would guess no to be the answer. So if that is the case, what are the factors that affect some kids differently? Is it intelligence? Family income level? Religion/religiousness? Some other factor(s)?

My feeling (and it is just that, no more - no claim to be a qualified statement) is that the overwhelmingly big factor is somehow related to parental role-models and stability.

I don't think they are sex offenders I thought Sherri might thought that by saying sexaholics.

As imho a sexaholic would someone addicted to sex, not some with a different sense of fashion.

Still, I think you're overreacting. Looking at a half exposed butt won't burn you eyeballs nor will it hurt you. You don't even have to look at it.

The gangbangers stuff or how you may call it isn't the cause for disrespect nor violence, it's rather one of the symptoms.

A person wearing baggy pants isn't any more or less violent or disrespectful than someone wearing a tuxedo.

You think about why children and youngsters are acting like this not what they're wearing.

-------

I'm probably never going to understand why people in the United States are this much afraid of seeing others "private parts".
Ultrareligious but offended by the skin "god" gave you.

*sigh*

Right you are!!

It's not the baggy pants at all that bothers me. As a matter of fact, believe it or not, I like them along with the long T-shirts, caps, boots or sneakers. They DO look cool!

The 13-year-old boy and other teens like him have no regards for respect whatsoever when it comes to wearing such attire! It is as though he just blatently threw out the rule book and is doing whatever he damn well pleases, whenever he pleases.

Just who is he and others trying to impress by doing that? Is that his way of trying to score a win for a girl? The way that he's showing his butt to everyone, he might just as well be telling everyone to kiss it!!!

Hi Kevin
I think society as a whole plays a part in in how we feel we are acknowledged and accepted. Propagandized entertainment rewiring our thoughts and desensitizing people to what is normal behavior and what is acceptable behavior. When the value system of a family is attacked and weak parents submit to pressure and what society calls the norm, then we have un-disciplined children. They want discipline in the long run, I have received thank you's from my daughter for holding her back from things..but I too had much to learn even so. Look how it was in the 60's 70's 80's you see where I am going with this..Change is inevitable,,but the value system of a family and morals should not be compromised. The law has stepped in..some states even allow incest with their children, other states you cannot discipline your child with corporal punishment..they'll throw your tail in the can..So much has attacked the family, and we let everyone else raise our kids..so all that you mentioned of course is included. The difference with lower level families is they may get caught quicker in their use of drugs or whatever..where as opposed to the socially elite, a few buttons pressed and bingo there out of the kill with being caught in the web, so many factors take place..There is no one thing..I will say..and of course I would..taking God out of the schools and eliminating the pledge of the allegiance here in the states..we surely began to see an unwilling change sneak in the back door. To me it began with a certain moral decline.

Sherri

Of course, when we were growing up, most of the stuff we see today weren't around back them.

Jeans or dungarees, as they were called back then, were not even allowed to be worn at school. We had to dress as though we were going to church.

Sorry to have to correct you, but I think that was late '80s / early '90s when MC Hammer burst onto the music/video scene.

Though I don't remember seeing him wearing baggy pants, I DO remember seeing Tupac wear them. He was a very strong advocate for wearing such gangbanger-style attire.

The 13-year-old boy was more then likely looking for an excuse to start a fight, which is why I left him alone.

I DID notice another boy who appears to be the same age but smaller today wearing baggy pants with his underwear showng. I just shook my head at him. He gave me one of the dirtiest looks as if looks could kill, I'd have been a goner!

He mumbled under his breath, but I heard him say; "Who the f*** are you looking at. Then I said; "Pull up your pants, please." He gave me the finger and kept walking. Disrespectful little brat!!

I think you can take god out of that equation. I know that god plays a important role in many peoples lives, but god or the lack thereof is often used as a excuse in such context.

Children need someone who cares about them, good schools, a environment where they can flourish.

I think the Scandinavian countries in northern Europe are a good example for this. The majority of the population in those countries doesn't believe in got, yet they have low crime rates, are all in all well educated.

And that's imho entirely because of the awesome school system. No one, is left behind. They seem to know that the children are the future and so they treat them like that.

In my opinion many of those problems youngsters are being accused of happens because of the lack of respect the adults show towards them. They take away they hope, take away their chances for a good life.

If their born into a bad neighbourhood, into a poor family, they're almost certainly pretty much fucked. They couldn't choose when or where they were born, yet they are the ones held responsible.

It doesn't even have to be their parents, their teachers or whatever others' fault. It doesn't matter who cares for them, or who gives them the respect they deserve as long as there's anyone doing it.

People should stop holding children responsible when they needed help and didn't get it. Sure, there's a line they might cross sometime, somewhere but often they do that because no one showed them where to stop or where to begin.

As far as I can remember the pants MC Hammer was wearing were parachute pants, not baggy pants. I'm not 100% sure about the name though.


P.S.: I just woke up so my English might be bad but I just was in the mood to write something. I'm sorry.

[quote=MRiGnS;97474]I think you can take god out of that equation. I know that god plays a important role in many peoples lives, but god or the lack thereof is often used as a excuse in such context.




HI MRiGns
is it that simple? who can create another human being? I say this because he invested in us..to let us have choice..the choice to remove him was probably not to wise, look what has gone down in the last 100 years alone, why hasnt this world come to such advancement over the time before the 19 century. Think about technology/progression just in the last 100 years..why the last 100 years only..why not years and years before this? its like time is speeding up with reason, as if a message is being sent loud and clear..end times maybe? yes we all heard it from the great granmas..but so much is going down now..

..I just remember a more settled way of being raised, sublime to now..it just blows my mind. I remember a sanctity being in the school system and it seemed to grace the day with some kind of dignity as we all stood one nation under God..now its move over God..we decided to take over..we the people.


I agree with you with the environmental family unit and its residency playing havoc with our young...like I said, what is it now that cannot be discredited.

Sherri

I just want to say that I'm not trying to pass down judgement on any of the kids, but they DO need to clean up their act and stop showing their butts in public.

1990 maybe well be right - seems like ancient history to me now lol. But specifically what I remember was only 1 song, which was many many times more successful than anything else he did - 'You Can't Touch This' For some nostalgia, check it out:
YouTube - Mc Hammer can't touch this

PS, whether you want to call them parachute pants or not, they look pretty baggy to me

He made a few others, but yes you're right, 'You Can't Touch This', I think, was his #1 all-time hit while using some of the background music from Rick James's hit song; 'Super Freak'.

And BTW, there's a new rap singer hoping to get into the limelight - Bentley Green, who is only 7, and he, also, is already wearing baggy pants. Haha!!

On a side note - personally, I find the terms 'rap singer' and 'rap music' to be almost (but not quite) oxymoronic. Rap, to me, is not singing or music. The better quality stuff (the minority) can certainly be seen as a performance art, perhaps even poetry. But I can't really reconcile it as music as such. I say 'not quite' because there is a relationship of sorts between rap and music, which is pretty hard to define. I guess that probably deserves a thread of its own

It does, but there wouldn't be any baggy pants being worn by the kids if it weren't for rap stars.

I guess Tupac Shakur and others have started a trend.

Not only do the teens were baggy pants, but grown men do, also.

Well that would seem to be obvious since:

1. Teenagers grow into adults and the baggy pants thing has been around for some time now.

2. Rap, 'Gangsta' culture, etc are not restricted to teenagers. And people will emulate their role models - clothing style being just one aspect of that emulation.

Yeah, since it came mainly from rap stars like Tupac and others.

A strange and almost embarrassing thing happened to me the other day. My belt broke while I was out in public, and I was forced to wear my jeans baggy-style!!

Someone I know has asked me; "Hey, aren't you a little too old to wear baggy pants?" "My belt broke," I told him. The jeans were almost halfway off my butt!!

Sounds like you need to put on some weight or get some jeans that fit you properly