If I can be accused of one or the other I think misanthropy is a far more likely and fitting tag then misogyny. But if you mean I paint a picture of a misogynistic world we live in, then yes, that is absolutely correct.

'Boiling down' the cause does not come down easily to a single factor (obviously - we are talking about millions and millions of individuals here). And I have neither the time or inclination to instantly come up with an exhaustive list or study of causal factors. However, all is not lost - I think we can broadly say that in most cases, the most common factor for not negotiating would be the expected outcome of negotiating. It's not just an internal response, it's an internal response to external (environmental) factors.

I found an interesting Washington Post article that provides some evidence supporting this idea (I know how attached you are to evidence). Here is a key excerpt:

I would also agree with that last statement - "fixing the women" isn't a final solution (e.g. Hilary's course proposal), but it's a start, and a positive, concrete step (again, 'Affirmative Action') that can help while society does continue to grow out of it's past years of extreme sexism. I do believe that huge advances have been made towards gender equality, but we can't be complacent and figure the job is now done - it isn't, and complacency carries with it the danger of regression.

Link to the article quoted: Salary, Gender and the Social Cost of Haggling - washingtonpost.com

I can't take that study seriously because it was all make believe among a very small selection of participants who knew they were playing make believe, and likely knew what the study was investigating.

Did you read the entire article btw? Do you agree with everything in the article you linked to, or just the part you copied and pasted? You may be surprised to know that I read the article in its entirety. It presented some of the same information I've been presenting you, which you have been rejecting.

I went and downloaded the study as well, and read that. Only 13 pages. Absolutely ridiculous - it was completed with a survey, and the make-believe situation was so far from reality (a student asking for a summer intern job at a bank asking for a free laptop among many other ridiculous requests?) that the study as a whole can no way be useful.

As important as I'm sure you think the finding of this study are, I'm sure even you would agree that this work is unreliable if you take the time to download and read the study.

The fact that the requests at the negotiating table were so outrageous, it doesn't really matter who was penalized more, because male or female, they'd be laughed out of the room in the real world.

Also, only 119 participants? And they couldn't even get a even number of men and women?

Hi Raz..I dont know how to break up and quote the questions without losing the page, dumb I know..so its all added together.

On the fight for womens rights-
1. I think there will always be those who see women as the weaker vessel and working to keep them at a lower level of success no matter what..people live in the dark ages still and use that as a reason to keep a woman under-achieved as much as possible. No, the battle is on going..now instead of us having a place of accomplishment/acceptance in a mans world we are the competition/threat,..Instead of agreement and adjustment, its eat them first or be eaten by them..thats ugly..Where is the peace? I realize this is not for all, just something I personally have examined in the outcome to womens quest to be the victors. I dont think a tranquil absolution will ever actually avail.

2. Yes I do believe its far more about the choices the woman makes and not in accordance to gender..that is..in this day and in this time..but remember,,my view may be shallow but its a mans world..God created man first..there was a reason for that, if I am understanding the question correctly. The fact that we are female remains..Its a choice of what we want..how we can get there and what we will sacrifice to get there..so each individual makes a choice personally to bring about stumbling blocks or build stepping stones. We will always be the weaker partner, its how God created us. His intent was never for us to be stepped on by men and trampled under as history seems to be unveiled in this manner somewhat. I am talking living as slaves and in concubines..and being over all pushed around..that was not his intent. It was that in our weakness, the man would be strong and provide..in our submission to God we have a place of honor and know exactly how to take care for our men and build them up..bringing forth men of great character and nature..there is much to be said of all of this. Now.. does God look at the female and say..oh your a female, your place is in the home..no he does not, it is however his preference, but he knew we would never stay in the development of his call and cause..He doesnt draw lines between man and woman on a corporate level..So to me..it is not of gender..that came from society..and we worked hard to address oppression and conquer the war of succeeding equality.

3. I dont know why a female would be less likely to negotiate her salary..except decaying her courage forthcoming would be that of fear..the womens movement wanted equality, in this they must be willing to again..make sacrifices and do as the men must do..that should be equal..pay as well. We dont get a piece of the pie because we are women..the weaker vessel. Equality is that..not about splitting hairs after the fact..However..its created difficulty with women who still want the old world to be in order..and dont mind letting the man be fully in control..

4. The tax payer funded program. I am quite certain it would open more positves in a female and encourage them to go forth with a lil more bravery added. Not to mention but a program like this may very well stimulate society and have a ripple affect on others to be less dominating in the working feild. Women will be prepared for battle per say. Now help has arrived, they will be armed and have back-up if you will. Preparation is wise with any and all who are willing to seek it out. Not sure this is the tax payers obligation financially, the matter of fact..it is not. This should be individualized. Gracious..have they not sucked enough blood from the turnips already?

I think I lined up these questions as your asking..remember,,this is my voice only..not all women agree with what I have stated..some may some may not..

Oh and I could not have said a word had I not read the entire postings of all individuals. I could never be the referee with you and Kevin..have mercy I would vaporize entering the ring..he-he

Sherri

You copy the text, including the brackets, where it says "QUOTE=username" and paste it at the beginning of the portion you want to quote, then end it with just the /quote with brackets. You see examples at the beginning and end in the text editor.

I wasn't going to include Muslims in this part of the conversation, I was referring to Westerners.

Odd, I've never had that impression of women. It just never occured to me to think of women in today's equality as a threat. Where did you get that idea?

wasn't going to include Muslims in this part of the conversation, I was referring to Westerners."[/quote]

I am talking of Westerners even so..its less perceived now than it once was but it still remains to a degree.



Odd, I've never had that impression of women. It just never occured to me to think of women in today's equality as a threat. Where did you get that idea?[/quote]

I know there are women out that that try to avail to certain positions with men being in charge of promoting positions for women and unless your the pageant queen for the same position you get rolled out and rolled over and Miss beautiful gets the cheese..not always the case but it has been in passing from time to time..

I am thoroughly glad you do not feel this way as this reasoning would do well for all men to think in this way..

I am seeing some of these advantages over others with-in the work realm of my daughters employment in the hospital..It can get sticky there from time to time..

Sherri

I wasn't going to include Muslims in this part of the conversation, I was referring to Westerners.



Odd, I've never had that impression of women. It just never occured to me to think of women in today's equality as a threat. Where did you get that idea?[/quote]

HI Ras!

I am talking of Westerners even so..its less perceived now than it once was but it still remains to a degree.


I am actually going by what I have heard from my daughter and her place of employment. I had a little experience as well, but this was in the musical industry when I was young..its very competitive, and you can become a threat quickly in that industry if you go through the wrong channels you may not get in at all. Also when I was young and went into the business I am in now, I personally posed a threat to an owner of a company in which I too wanted to start..it was loud and clear. I am small potatoes compared to him..but at the time I guess he was concerned. So this is my own personal experience.

I just think the atmosphere should be a little more relaxed and for male administrators at these hospitals over the female employee would be's should open more doors a bit and not worry about being taken over.

Sherri

I was kind of kidding because I knew what you meant, but hadn't "stirred the puddin'" in a while.

But do compare how women are treated in other parts of the world, but Muslims and other primitive cultures, and you'll see what I was getting at. Their best day is worse than any woman's worst day needs to be in the U.S.

HI Ras..
he-he..I am slow at times..
but truly I fully agree with you on all respects with the current world affairs in regards to other women and our fortune here in the states that we tend to over-look and or take advantage of..

We are indeed a blessed nation..still

Sherri