I don't know how many of you know of the free mason society and it's history, but it's no secret that many Presidents were in fact part of this as many well to do politicians. What do you think about the free mason religion?
It's obviously tied into U.S. money and there are still clubs far and wide. Just wondering what people's thoughts on this are. I had gotten into it a bit due to finding a pure silver masonic penny from early 1900's. It was from a high standing mason as the symbols indicate. Anyway, thoughts? I don't hear much about this so thought it would make a different subject.

OMIF

Religion?

Um yeah?
I know where this is going and instead, I'll let you judge for yourself but to anyone who knows even a bit of what would constitute a religion read on...

http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/MASONREL.TXT

I would say they are in denial but even other members state it's a religion.

FWICT the mason belief system is supposed to be a least common denominator of all religions. The only core beliefs are belief in a God, and immortality.

The biggest problem is that there is no common denominator in all religions. Some religions are atheist and reject the idea of immortality as a desired end ... Buddhism is a good example.

Though, I don't see the masons as much different from any other religion. I have to admit the beliefs and practices look a bit creepy to me, but of course any religion's beliefs and practices probably look creepy and nonsensical to outsiders looking in.

I'm not sure I agree with the linked article that masonic beliefs are logically incompatible with Christianity, for example. Any two religions can be combined, even explicitly contradictory ones. All that's needed is a weight or priority attached to the beliefs, to resolve the conflict.

I see your point on a number of issues with FM. Mostly that it's a bit creepy. Oddly enough though, why so many in government are part of the society is strange to me. Read here at the bottom...

United States Presidents who were Freemasons

George Bush took an oath on the GW bible...hmmmmm as well as a few others.

I wonder if it's a bit more hidden now or if it's dwindling?

I knew one guy who joined. From what I gathered, it's kinda a buddy-buddy system where people get business contacts and special favors on account of their membership. For example, he said he was pulled over by a cop for speeding, and the cop saw he was a FM, and gave him only a warning. I'm guessing the cop belonged to the club as well.

Although to be fair, I think the same buddy-buddy system exists in a lot of groups. I've worked at numerous places where the people from the owner's church got jobs and promotions with little or no credentials.

Some societies/groups/clubs/lodges I think exist solely for this function.

I hate to break it to you guys and spoil all your fun, but the masons is nothing more than a club of grown men gathering together once a month to dress up and play make-believe. Attributing all these mysterious powers of being able to run the world to them is probably greatly appreciated and lends the air of mystery they need to keep attracting new members, but I think you're giving them too much credit.

BTW, a lot of big guys play golf too - is there anything sinister about golf, or is it the secret handshakes that sets masons apart?

There's a buddy-buddy system with golf as well.

I think you're not reading my point though, that the complaints I have against FM probably exist in all organized religion/groups/clubs/etc.

IMO there are too many members for it to be interesting. More exclusive entities like the bilderbergers... skull and bones are more interesting.

I don't know though it is all kind of confusing.

My grandfather was a free mason, I have never known much about it but am interested in what it is.

As to the purpose and function of a secret society, I think secret societies probably evolved out of necessity in more oppressive governments. I vaguely recall hearing that scientists used to operate in groups like this when the church controlled much of what could be said.

Nowadays people in the U.S. are free to say just about anything without fearing for their life. So these groups seem anywhere between silly and menacing (what on Earth are they hiding?). Although I suppose they still serve a function. If a government takes a turn for the worse and begins heavy censorship of ideas, a social framework already exists and can survive throughout it.

Overall, I suppose these groups are a good thing to have for ensuring conduits of free communication. (This kinda fits what little I know about FM ... that they are not really masons anymore (meaning stone workers) but work in the abstract now, shaping ideas.)

Personally though, I'm not a big fan of secrecy, especially with regards to the government. It can hide a cancer as well as hide something good. I liked Popper's idea of an "open government." I don't like the idea of secret societies playing any role in a closed government. This combination can erode freedom.

Hey Yaaarrrrgggg!

Just to mention that we don't know what goes on behind the closed doors of politics, be it Masonic, or anything else. So I see no difference in that sense?

If my memory serves me, there has always been a huge rift between established religion and Freemasonry. I think when it came out in the open in something like 1770 or 80, it was because of a special Bull or Decree from the Pope.

I think this only came about because it was made clear that a newly fashioned 2nd Degree gave the the Mason the right to study Natural Science ( which was until this time called Alchemy, Sorcery or even Magic) and Masonic History, which alludes back to the pyramids and beyond.

All of these things up until this point were considered heresy as "God" was responsible for Nature and not Natural Science.

As for the secrets: Find me any one of the major echelons of society that does not have it's own secrets? I mean, from Hells Angels to Generals. Take your pick!!

Though at times I'm a bit skeptical of Wikipedia, this seems to be a fairly balanced explanation of freemasonry.

It should answer many of the questions that people have about it:

Freemasonry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wikipedia is a cool-tool, but it's boring when used just to add to a subject that people are trying to talk about in a more experiential manner. Anybody can type the words into the Wiki or Google or any other search engine. However, if this was the only way to acquire knowledge, there would be no need for a forum discussion, everyone could just become Wiki or Google-parrots: A bit like watching life through a television instead of feeling the wind on your face.

Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do, we do.
Who robs cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we do!

Experimental thought is one thing, but getting your facts straight when you're talking about a real thing, rather than theory, is probably more important.

Now that is at least a bit more like it. I completely agree with "Hayes" and I also feel the same about the Grand Architect.

Once our eye is taken off The Ball, there is only the brawl of politics and money and the secrets lost between King and Pharaoh.

Spaghetti and the bare bones of a fish! LOL

The word "experiential" means from "direct experience" rather than from "experimental" thought. If the two words are put side by side, it can be seen that they are different.

As I say, the Wiki, Google and such have their uses.

EDit* Sorry, I shouldn't be so catty: You have mistaken the meaning of my opinion.

It's too early in the morning. I read the word, and I understand what it means, but the wrong word registered in my brain. Rereading your post, I agree with your statement.

As it regards to posting some factual information on freemasonry, it may be helpful to some of the other early posters, to help them separate fact from fiction and speculation.

Your theophobia is pathetic. Aside from the occasional cultist who'll knock on your door with pamphlets or those muslims who want you dead, what complaint do you have with religious people? They pretty much mind their own business.

Specifically, what have masons done to you, or how have they effected your life, that's worth complaining about?