That's your experience of course. I grew up in a fundamentalist cult-like religion, and have a different opinion. Maybe if I get time, I will write a book about it.

It just looks like a typical organized religion to me.

Edit: This page has some friendlier information on masons:

A Page About Freemasonry

So having problem with one group justifies your phobic bigotry against any group that you label as a religion? And you never answered the question - how has your life been impacted by masons?

Is that what I said?

The elements I dislike cut across most all organized religions, in varying degrees. The best analogy is taste aversion. If one eats too much cheese and gets sickened by it, anything that smells like cheese will also make one nauseated. It the commonality of characteristics, or family resemblance, to other cults which bothers me. Not all religions have these characteristics, of course.

You are missing my point I'm afraid. Are you hoping for some ad hominen argument towards a particular group of freemasons??? Even if a group of freemasons did something to me, I wouldn't generalize this a problem with the entire religion. My problem is with the belief system itself, not the people. The belief system shares some similarity to cult-like mentality.

Do you believe there is nothing cult-like about it?

Like I said before, they're a bunch of guys who get together to play dress-up and make-believe. Big deal. Doesn't hurt me any. They also raise a lot of money for charities, fund hospitals for children with diseases and burn injuries.

What is it they believe that constitutes your "problem?" What it looks like to me is, you know very little about them, so you've prejudged them. Bigotry.

I'm not attacking the people. I'm looking at the belief system. Surely you can conceptual distinguish those two things.

What's wrong with their belief system. What is it they believe that bothers you so much?

To me, it looks like yet another cult-like buddy-buddy system, and it's discriminating against non-theists.

As regards to what does anyone have against FMs, I would more likely ask, why have THEY been the ones keeping such a tight lid on this over the years? Think it doesn't effect us? Why do you think the dollar bill has the pyramid and all seeing eye? It was due to FM beliefs which have sneakily been imposed throughout history. If it's just some religious group that doesn't effect us, why is our elected President allowed to swear on their bible? That should have nothing to do with our government officials that run the country. Yet, it does. This leaves me a bit uneasy.


OMIF

"Looking like a buddy-buddy system" to Yaaaarrrrgggg is not a belief system. That's pretty weak. So is complaining that they only allow theists to join.

What amazes me ... in your mind, it's okay for freemasons to discriminate against atheists. But if an atheist critiques an organization that discriminates against atheists, that makes the atheist a bigot? It's hard to argue with logic that backwards. I suppose you'd also call a black person a bigot for not liking the KKK?

I honestly don't feel the need to justify my beliefs to you beyond the level the FM organization has justified theirs.

If an atheist organization prohibits theists from becoming members, I have no problem with that whatsoever.

It is rational for anyone of any color to not like the KKK because their belief system is bigotted and based on hate - much like so many of you atheists who obsessivly bash on Christians. Now, if a black person was mad at the KKK simply because they don't allow black people to join, I'd call him a moron.

ROFLMAO!

Asinine, but funny.

There are definitely some atheists who do that, but I don't think yaaaarrrrgggggg is one of them. He's speaking his mind politely and reasonably, IMO.

No, yaaaaaarrrrrggggggg is not anywhere as evil as the animals in the KKK - I didn't mean to imply that. My point is that there is a similarity between the way the two factions exist on hatred and a feeling of superiority over others that are different than they are.

How was that asinine? Wouldn't you think its laughably stupid for a black person to be mad because he can't join the KKK? Or an atheist to be mad because he can't join an organization grounded in a belief in a superior being?

The notion that you referred to is asinine, not your comment.Yes, and that's why I was laughing.

Ah, ok. Thought maybe I might have misunderstood you so asked.

I'd oppose that kind of organization on the same grounds. I think a true free thinking organization would allow any person to join.

Even subtracting explicit hatred, I'd say a black person would still have every right to be pissed, if the group was comprised of business leaders, judges, polices, and politicians, etc who were chummy in their all-white group.

But if you don't like that hyperbole, what if we consider freemasons? Traditionally, they've treated black people as inferior as well. Maybe that's a better example.

So, will you be contacting American Atheists Inc. (American Atheists) to register your opposition to their policies? They have a scholarship program, but applicants must be atheist. Let me know what they say.



Why? Because I'm male I was never allowed to join the girl scouts, but I've never been pissed about that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of organizations that segregate themselves by race - ie, NAACP, BET, etc. You see, race and spiritual belief systems are two very very different things. You recognize that right? People basically select their belief system, whereas they don't select their race. The NAACP has the racist belief that all blacks have similar wants and needs to require a segregated organization. That's a bit different than these Masons who all share a belief in a deity requiring that perspective members share this chosen belief? Right?

Interesting. I've known several masons that are black. There are lodges that are for black people - Prince Hall. I'd challenge you to find an example of a masonic lodge that doesn't welcome black people.

BTW, just about any group has some history of treating black people as inferior - or worse. The Democrat Party here in the U.S. is a better example than the Masons.

Rasczak: From being a thread based around the curiosities of Freemasonry, you have taken this thread away to the realms of bickering about religious stand-points. Do you think you could actually contribute something with regards the interest in Freemasonry. This thread has become focused on your definition of..............................it being your definition.

To get back on topic: Freemasonry had to remain hidden for centuries because of the uprising of Monotheistic Religion which deemed the study of "nature" a heresy.

The Inquisition was exceptionally fervent in Europe: The last public hanging being something like 1769 in Germany.


Hence, in particular, If you were a Mason, it was definitely a good idea to keep quiet about it!