Choice and accountability again: how MUCH accountability

DChristopher · 08-08-2007

I want to revisit Rasczak's question about choice and responsibility, but from a different perspective.

I think we all would agree that accountability and choice should be proportional. The relationship between choice and accountability goes two ways:

1. If you make the choice, you are accountable for the consequences.

2. If you do not make the choice, you should NOT be accountable for the consequences.

Now, I'm taking 1 and 2 above as a given, but feel free to argue those if you wish.

But, granted 1 and 2, my question is this: does a person have to be SOLELY accountable for ALL the consequences of ALL their choices, or should society take some of the burden if the consequences are extremely heavy, or seemingly out of proportion with the level of choice?

mmccarthy · 08-08-2007

I am moving this to the renamed forum.

Religion, Philosophy, Sociology and Ethics.

Mary

hairy_Palms · 08-08-2007

i beleive that there should be shared responsibility on certain things, for example if a politician makes a decision that is clearly against the majority of the public then they will quite rightly tell him where to go, but if he holds a referendum and gets input from the public and uses that input, then they share some of the resonsibility and in turn get a say in the decision.

im also gonna dive right in and disagree with statement two indecision is not a virtue imo,

bns · 08-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairy_Palms

im also gonna dive right in and disagree with statement two indecision is not a virtue imo,

I don't think this has to do with indecision. If the decision isn't yours to make, then you shouldn't be held accountable for the consequences of the decision.

LordFu · 08-09-2007

Choosing not to choose is in itself a choice. You may or may not be responsible for the consequences of a choice you make, but you are always responisble for your actions. A decision or choice doesn't always involve an action.

bns · 08-09-2007

To answer your question, DChristopher, society should bear some of the burden.

An example where they should: A fifteen year old girl gets pregnant. She made the choice to have sex, so she owns that decision to at least some degree. The guy wants nothing to do with her. She decides to keep the baby. The choice that got her to that place was hers, but I do not think she should be forced to bear the total responsibility for that. Ideally, she has a family that takes care of her and the child. But suppose she doesn't? What then? Society should help her in some way.

Why should society take on this burden? Because there are enough collective resources (human and financial) to handle it, but the girl has virtually no resources to care for the child while simultaneously educating herself and becoming a productive member of society. It's the principle of "from each according to his/her ability; to each according to his/her need."

LordFu · 08-09-2007

"from each according to his/her ability; to each according to his/her need."

I cannot express in words how much the mentality represented in that statement disgusts me. It should read "from each according to their slavery, to each according to their laziness". I know girls who had kids around that age. They didn't have to have the government steal for them to get by. It's called work and dedication. Where there's a will, there is, indeed, a way.

DemandingMore · 02-20-2008

Lord Fu, I find it interesting that you take a saying referring to community relationships and turn into slavery and theft. While I also do not agree with the given example by BNS, I find your leap of yours to be a bit extreme.

Society is accountable for the ideas inherent to our culture. Individuals are accountable for their actions within that culture. In the example of the pregnant girl, she has made her own choice and, while vaguely looked down upon, that choice is an accepted one by our culture. That girl will have to live with her choice by working hard and improving her life. Society, being partly to fault, should also have its share in blame. Its punishment is to learn.
Our cultures real burden is to improve. We have to expand our understanding and find ways to grow on a personal level, not a governmental one. Like Lord Fu, I don't approve of Government Welfare, however I don't think it should be done completely away with. After all, some people just need a little help to get going after unfortunate circumstances. Those that abuse it are simply bad apples. :P

08-08-2007	#1 (permalink)
DChristopher pragmatic idealist Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 190	Choice and accountability again: how MUCH accountability I want to revisit Rasczak's question about choice and responsibility, but from a different perspective. I think we all would agree that accountability and choice should be proportional. The relationship between choice and accountability goes two ways: 1. If you make the choice, you are accountable for the consequences. 2. If you do not make the choice, you should NOT be accountable for the consequences. Now, I'm taking 1 and 2 above as a given, but feel free to argue those if you wish. But, granted 1 and 2, my question is this: does a person have to be SOLELY accountable for ALL the consequences of ALL their choices, or should society take some of the burden if the consequences are extremely heavy, or seemingly out of proportion with the level of choice?

08-08-2007	#2 (permalink)
mmccarthy Administrator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 605	Re: Choice and accountability again: how MUCH accountability I am moving this to the renamed forum. Religion, Philosophy, Sociology and Ethics. Mary
	"Example is more powerful than precept" - Aesop Access Consultant

08-08-2007	#3 (permalink)
hairy_Palms Chuck Norris Join Date: May 2007 Location: London, England Posts: 330	Re: Choice and accountability again: how MUCH accountability i beleive that there should be shared responsibility on certain things, for example if a politician makes a decision that is clearly against the majority of the public then they will quite rightly tell him where to go, but if he holds a referendum and gets input from the public and uses that input, then they share some of the resonsibility and in turn get a say in the decision. im also gonna dive right in and disagree with statement two indecision is not a virtue imo,
	http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/ "Creationism is not a scientific alternative to natural selection any more than the stork theory is an alternative to sexual reproduction." — Hayes, 1996.

08-09-2007	#5 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Choice and accountability again: how MUCH accountability Choosing not to choose is in itself a choice. You may or may not be responsible for the consequences of a choice you make, but you are always responisble for your actions. A decision or choice doesn't always involve an action.
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.

08-09-2007	#6 (permalink)
bns Moderator Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 1,648	Re: Choice and accountability again: how MUCH accountability To answer your question, DChristopher, society should bear some of the burden. An example where they should: A fifteen year old girl gets pregnant. She made the choice to have sex, so she owns that decision to at least some degree. The guy wants nothing to do with her. She decides to keep the baby. The choice that got her to that place was hers, but I do not think she should be forced to bear the total responsibility for that. Ideally, she has a family that takes care of her and the child. But suppose she doesn't? What then? Society should help her in some way. Why should society take on this burden? Because there are enough collective resources (human and financial) to handle it, but the girl has virtually no resources to care for the child while simultaneously educating herself and becoming a productive member of society. It's the principle of "from each according to his/her ability; to each according to his/her need."
	"Give a man fire, and he will be warm for a day; set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his (short) life."---Wofl

08-09-2007	#7 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Choice and accountability again: how MUCH accountability "from each according to his/her ability; to each according to his/her need." I cannot express in words how much the mentality represented in that statement disgusts me. It should read "from each according to their slavery, to each according to their laziness". I know girls who had kids around that age. They didn't have to have the government steal for them to get by. It's called work and dedication. Where there's a will, there is, indeed, a way. Last edited by LordFu : 08-09-2007 at 04:24 PM.
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.

02-20-2008	#8 (permalink)
DemandingMore Commentator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 38	Re: Choice and accountability again: how MUCH accountability Lord Fu, I find it interesting that you take a saying referring to community relationships and turn into slavery and theft. While I also do not agree with the given example by BNS, I find your leap of yours to be a bit extreme. Society is accountable for the ideas inherent to our culture. Individuals are accountable for their actions within that culture. In the example of the pregnant girl, she has made her own choice and, while vaguely looked down upon, that choice is an accepted one by our culture. That girl will have to live with her choice by working hard and improving her life. Society, being partly to fault, should also have its share in blame. Its punishment is to learn. Our cultures real burden is to improve. We have to expand our understanding and find ways to grow on a personal level, not a governmental one. Like Lord Fu, I don't approve of Government Welfare, however I don't think it should be done completely away with. After all, some people just need a little help to get going after unfortunate circumstances. Those that abuse it are simply bad apples. :P
DemandingMore Commentator Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 38