Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg

The phrase "water is wet" is often given as a statement that's so obviously true, that the truth can't be questioned. But is the phrase "water is wet" really true? This is not obvious to me.

Unpacking meaning, "wet" likely just means "like water." Consider how this word is learned ... by experiencing water, then generalizing to other liquids like milk and paint. When we say "the paint is wet" we are likely just saying "the paint is like water" ... meaning liquid.

So a statement like "Water is wet" is probably just saying something like "Water is like water" at bottom.

Since "water is like water" is simply repeating the same thing twice (the trivial case of the 'like' operator), it's really more a redundancy than a truth.

Worse it introduces possible error. If we want to be real sticklers, we could even say "Water is like water" is technically false. That water isn't "like" water but is exactly the same thing.

Originally Posted by Oxford English Dictionary

1. Consisting of moisture, liquid. Chiefly as a pleonastic rhetorical epithet of water or tears.
In OE. used with ref. to mediaeval physiology = MOIST 1d, HUMID b.

2. a. Of weather, a period of time, a locality: Rainy.

b. Of the air, wind, etc.: Holding or carrying moisture in the form of vapour.

c. Of a star: Bringing rain.

d. transf. and fig. (Cf. RAINY 2b.)

e. Comb. (adj. + n. used as an attrib. phr.).

f. absol. = wet season. Freq. with def. article and also with capital initial. colloq. (chiefly Austral.).

3. a. Of land or soil: Holding water, saturated with water, heavy.

b. Of a crop: Grown in a moist or watery soil.

4. Made damp or moist by exposure to the elements or by falling in water; sprinkled, covered, or permeated with rain, dew, etc. Const. with, {dag}of. a. of things, esp. clothing.

b. of persons (together with their clothes) or a part of the body. Also of animals.

c. with prefixed intensive pple., as wringing (see WRINGING ppl. a.), dripping, {dag}dropping wet. wet through, to the skin: having one's clothes completely saturated (cf. WET v. 4c).

d. absol. the wet = one's wet clothes.

e. Applied to a removable liner for the cylinder of an internal-combustion engine that has cooling water flowing between it and the cylinder wall.

5. a. Suffused with tears; moist with weeping or with being wept upon. Const. with, {dag}of.

b. Suffused or covered with blood; dripping or oozing with blood. (Only of wounds, or with explicit mention of blood.)

c. Moist or damp with perspiration.

d. to get wet: to lose one's temper, become angry. Austral. slang (?Obs.).

e. to get (someone) wet: to gain the upper hand over; to have at one's mercy. N.Z. slang.

f. Of those activities of intellignece organizations, esp. of the K.G.B., that involve assassination. slang.

6. a. Made moist or damp by dipping in, or sprinkling or smearing with, water or other liquid.
Freq. of new-printed matter (newspapers or books), esp. in the phr. wet from the press.

{dag}b. (a) with a wet finger: easily, with little effort. Also (b) readily, without hesitation; (c) slightly, lightly. Obs.
Perh. from the practice of wetting the first or second finger on one's tongue in order to facilitate turning over the leaves of a book or to rub out writing on a slate. Cf. quots. 1721 and 1839 in 6.

c. in other proverbial expressions.
to cover oneself with a wet sack: see SACK n.1 3.

d. to come with a wet sail: to make swift progress to victory, like a ship with sails wetted in order to keep close to the wind.

7. Of timber: Full of sap, unseasoned.

8. Of paint, varnish, ink: Not yet dry, sticky, liable to smudge.

9. Fortif. Of a ditch: Containing water.
For the sense cf. WET DOCK.

10. Of fish: a. Cured with salt or brine. b. Fresh, not dried.

11. Of confections: Preserved in syrup; of a syrupy nature. Of surgical or natural-history specimens: Bottled in spirits.

12. Of measure: Used for liquid articles. ?Obs.

13. Med. a. Designating certain diseases which are characterized by moist secretions.

b. wet cup, cupping: see CUPPING vbl. n. 1.

c. Designating various modes of hydropathic treatment, as in wet bandage, compress, pack, packing, sheet.

14. colloq. a. Primed with liquor; more or less intoxicated. (Cf. WET v. 7b.)

b. Addicted to drink.

c. transf.

15. colloq. a. Of a Quaker: Not very strict in the observances of his sect. (See also 14b.)

b. Inept, ineffectual, effete; also as quasi-adv. and in comb. wet fish, a wet individual, a ‘drip’. Also spec. in Politics (see quots. 1981 and 1983). Cf. WET n.1 6.

c. all wet: mistaken, completely wrong. orig. and chiefly U.S.

d. wet behind the ears: see EAR n.1 1c.

16. a. Consisting of alcoholic liquor.

b. Concerned with the sale and consumption of alcoholic liquor.

c. orig. and chiefly U.S. Permitting the sale of alcoholic liquor: accepting or adhering to this as a principle; opposed to the prohibition of the liquor traffic. Freq. in recent use. Hence as quasi-adv. in phr. to go or vote wet. Cf. DRY a. 11a.

d. absol. or quasi-n. (from prec. sense).

17. a. Designating various technical processes or operations.

b. Designating chemical tests and analysis involving the use of solvents or other liquids; = HUMID a. c; so wet-chemical adj. Cf. WAY n.1 14c.

18. Naut. Of a vessel: Liable to ship water over the bows or gunwale.

19. Of natural gas: containing significant amounts of the vapour of higher hydrocarbons.

20. In combination with pa. pples.: a. predicative, as wet-crushed, -picked, -plucked, salted, situated, spun, woaded.

b. parasynthetic, as wet-bottomed, -eyed, -feeted, -footed, -lipped, mouthed.

Originally Posted by MRiGnS

Well, alcohol is wet, too.

Originally Posted by bns

Well you bring up an interesting point. Here's my take.

Let's adjust the definition of 'wet' a bit.
1. Having the properties of water.
2. Has water on it. (e.g. the towel is wet)

I think #1 is the appropriate one for the statement "water is wet." Clearly, water has the properties of water. It's a tautology. That being the case, I think the statement "water is wet" works just fine. "Having the properties of" is much more clear than simply "like" and avoids the confusion that you mention.

Originally Posted by rjwood

Interesting. I wonder what you would say (I hope you don't mind me speaking directly to you) if the sign says 'wet paint' and the paint is 'tacky'? Because the 'wet' paint is no longer 'like' water or 'watery'.

Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg

Hey, you used the word 'you'! I suppose it might be partly false in that case. (I see truth as a matter of degree). But that's a good question.

Originally Posted by rjwood

Just trying to keep up a little. Thanks for the confidence building.

Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg

I'm just as confused as anyone else (perhaps more)

Originally Posted by rjwood

It's better to be confused instead of lost like I am.

Originally Posted by Rasczak

wet = liquid state

Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg

That's a valid definition. If we add that:

water = H2O
dry = not wet

then it follows that "dry water" really exists.

Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg

It's not clear that tautologies are true statements. A common view is that mathematical statements are neither true nor false. IMO a mathematical axiom like '1=0' is perfectly valid, just not very useful. Maybe one could think of it as a degenerate case like '1=0 (mod 1)'. In this case "Water is wet" could be neither true nor false.

Originally Posted by Rasczak

wet = liquid state

Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg

That's a valid definition. If we add that:

water = H2O
dry = not wet

then it follows that "dry water" really exists.

Originally Posted by bns

By that definition, oil would be considered wet. That bothers my intuitive understanding of the word.

Originally Posted by bns

Also, that would make a 'wet towel' actually not wet, as the towel is clearly not a liquid. But then, that's an entirely different usage of the word 'wet'.

Originally Posted by bns

Does the fact that I am enjoying this discussion suggest that I am a geek?

Originally Posted by Rasczak

At a certain pressure and temperature, it can exist in all three states simultaneously.