Without testable proof, all you have are postulations and assumptions.


Aside from the mistaken notion that we're "floating", several species of bacteria can survive quite will in space.

Again, we are not "floating". We are bound by the laws of gravity into an orbit around the gravity well created by the warping of space-time created by the mass of the nearest star, Sol.

Not according to some of the latest theories in physics. Look up "brane" on a good physics site. We may, in fact, be able to leave this universe.

No, they aren't. They would only be upside down if the center of gravity of the Earth was moved. But then, you'd be upside down, too. Now that would be funny.

I tend to call it an inability to properly attribute causation.

But now the conversation is veering rather sharply from the original subject.

Excellent post. Back to the subject... the global distribution of people who like to attribute supernatural causes to natural phenomena and invent curious names for their beliefs...

Plenty of the them around and entertaining they are too

There are other more satirical offerings as well such as the Spaghetti Monster (see here ), the Teapot (Bertrand Russell), etc. We probably need appropriate names for people following those beliefs too. How about "pastas" for the former, and "Leafies" for the latter?

So we define words to make them sound awe-inspiring. Yup, that sounds like a useful way to go about discussing things. You've probably identified a key motivation behind these beliefs, the personal desire to be in awe of something.

The background radiation of The Cosmos is measured as 2.7 degrees kelvin: That is 2.7 degrees above absolute zero, which we can call minus 273 degrees celsius (That's minus 270 the freezing point of water.)

.....and you would recognize this bacteria if it were walking down the street? I have many times looked for any cables, wires, chains or threads holding Our Home in place, but so far.........nope? We are indeed "floating": Perhaps the words "suspended by gravity" will make you feel more comfortable?

I don't understand anything about the "warping of space-time?" But I do know that it takes the light from our Sun roughly 8.25 minutes to arrive from it's destination.

This is too far off topic.

I can assure you, if you step back from The Earth, you will see that plants, trees, animals, people, and even birds in the Southern Hemisphere, are indeed standing in the opposite direction to the same in the Northern Hemisphere.

Please explain what kind attribute I should give to Minus 270 degrees celsius and the unseen force we call Gravity?

No, it is about The Cosmos and how we feel or respect It (inside and outside), or how we look in awe at our surroundings (inside and outside), or even how it may be considered that our surroundings are worthy of worship. I think that's roughly where the thread started: Pagans and Wiccans.

After you.

Wow! So you are saying you are in awe of absolutely nothing in life?

Nope, didn't say anything of the kind. Awe is very much a disempowering approach to the world - interest, curiosity, fascination, these are much more active and empowering because they might actually lead to understanding.

So lack of "awe" does not mean lack of respect?

Which has what to do with what I said?

You said "all life". I'm pointing out that this is an incorrect statement. That doesn't seem overly difficult a thing to grasp, yet it appears to have escaped you.

Go look up "space-time" and/or general relavity. Read. Then come back. Start here: General relativity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why? You seem to be saying that everything is part of the same cosmos. I'm saying this may not necessarily be true. That seems fairly on-topic to me.

But facing in the same directly relative to the center of gravity of the planet we're all standing on.

You've taken this out of context. But generally, anytime someone attributes anything to a super-, or just supranatural cause, I strongly suspect the inability to properly attribute causation.

What? I don't "worship" anything. Well, except maybe my bicycle. And no, it also included heathens, of which I am one. Perhaps you should check the currently accepted definition of a heathen. Hint: nothing supernatural is involved. The rest of your statement doesn't parse; surroundings, inside and outside? What? That's nonsense, atleast as I parse it.

Just for starters, why do you keep telling me that I'm saying that minus 270 is a supernatural phenomena?? The whole Cosmos is all "natural" whether I understand it or not?

Just to pick up on your first point for now: You said I was making assumptions without evidence, I gave you some evidence of incredible natural phenomena and you are asking me "what that has to do with what you're saying?"

The basic evidence of "Awesome Cosmic Reality" is not an assumption.

No, I said that without testable proof, all you have are postulations and assumptions. I didn't say you, specifically, we're making either. This was in response to your statement that "as far as you knew", you were not making assumptions. You also describe this as being somehow "awesome". I disagree. It's simply the way it is, and is in no way "awesome" or "incredible", any more than a drop of pond water is awesome, despite containing more bacteria than there are people in the US.

I don't think you should have respect for ideas. You should have respect for people. Ideas are simply mental constructions that may or may not accurately reflect the real world. They express interpretations.

People deserve respect whatever their ideas but everyone is free to discuss and criticise any ideas whatsoever. An attack on ideas is not the same thing as an attack on the person (that would be the commonly seen ad hominem fallacy).

Of course people feel a sense of awe when they contemplate the vastness of the universe, the fantastic diversity of life, the simplicity of many universal physical laws, etc. But in what way would you "respect" those things? Respect is a person thing.

Having just a sense of awe and not following it through into scientific investigation is almost like deciding the race is over once you find the starting point, settling for a vague self-defined notion rather than finding out.

For example, we can postulate a life force, Gaia or whatever, but settling there and worshipping it is a complete cop-out. If there is such a force, how to we find the evidence for it, where are its effects to be witnessed, how can it be understood and explained? How do we challenge the idea and provide alternative explanations? If we settle for worship, and give ourselves fanciful titles, we are still at the start, we haven't found out anything, we haven't discovered anything, and we are certainly not being profound.

You don't need a sense of awe. You need a sense of curiosity, of critical enquiry.

I think if people respect the fact that we are on a lone planet in the "middle of nowhere" so-to-speak, it would go a long way to consolidating what knowledge we do have of The Cosmos.

Well, the Pagans and Wiccans appear to have deserted us? I'm not surprised really: It is impossible to put ones feelings into words effectively on certain subjects. I can only wrap up my part in this thread by saying: Personally, I find it absolutely awesome that the main thing that keeps us from instant death by Minus 270 (and it would be instantaneous) The Sun, is also a completely awesome Star.

I went out for a walk last night at 22:15 (GMT) looked up, and saw Ursa Major (The Great Bear or The Plough) just like I have done all my life. That constellation may be there millions, if not billions of years after my death!! When I think about it, I could easily exchange the word "awesome" for Profound, or even Ineffable.

The moral of the involvement in this thread for me is that: I don't have to be of any religion to appreciate/respect/be in awe of, or to find my position in The Cosmos profound, yet to also find these surroundings inexplicably beautiful and terrifying all at the same time, in other words.............Profoundly Awesome!!

All the best!

Science accepts the temperature of The Cosmos to be 2.7 Kelvin. This equates to minus 270 degrees celsius. That is not an assumption or a postulation.

Neither is the fact that The Sun will burn out one day, or that The Earth will become space dust one day, or that it would take us 120'000 years to reach our nearest Star at the escape velocity of The Earth. I am certainly not a scientist or religiuos, but even I can work these things out!

I don't think you're reading the replies. No-one has challenged the temperature of space... not the fact that the sun will burn out (somewhere around 4 billion AD-ish). The point is that these things are not worthy of worship. They are simply facts of the environment. Awe doesn't seem a sufficient justification for worship. Piggy-backing rituals onto these observations might just be an expression of wonderment but there's nothing remotely profound about that.

Is it perhaps the frisson of excitement that goes with the improbability of life? That's certainly a motivation for scientists to pursue investigative and experimental work.

I think the point being made is that this wonderment is at the beginning of trying to obtain knowledge and understanding, and isn't an end in itself. We can sit back and say "Wow, man it's awesome" but nothing changes between before saying it and after. With science, we make progress towards understanding - the before and after are not the same.

The Wiccan gods apparently like this guy best...

Mega Millions lottery winner made pact with Wiccan gods

I agree, but that does not stop it being awesome: "Hip" youngsters say "it was an awesome sound machine" or an "awesome computer" or she had "awesome t***" what's wrong with an "awesome Cosmos?" There is no resting on laurels or inactivity because it is understood that we are faced with a phenomenal predicament on The Earth.

I don't understand how you tie the two things together? As for any kind of "worship" you can worship the awesome Sound Machine, the awesome Computer or the awesome T***, but at the end of all this we are faced with the Awesome Cosmos?? It's Our Home!!!

Maybe the mistake is to assume you are saying something

Awesome is a really overused word.

Then it would be your mistake to think you have traveled so far and seen so much.

LOL! Perhaps I could use ineffably "profound" but worth investigating?