so, some of you maybe thought as why Jews do not believe in Jesus (were did you take this name from ??? in Hebrew it's Yeshu) as there savior and messiah.

first of all you need to understand what is messiah in Judaism.
The word "moshiach" does not mean "savior." The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought. Unfortunately, this Christian concept has become so deeply ingrained in the English word "messiah" that this English word can no longer be used to refer to the Jewish concept.

The Moshiach

The moshiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The moshiach is often referred to as "moshiach ben David" (moshiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

he moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15).

What About Jesus?

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the moshiach. assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him, he simply did not fulfill the mission of the moshiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

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Messiah : The Criteria

Judge for yourself:
Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria?

The Jewish tradition of "The Messiah" has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands "The Messiah" to be a human being - without any overtone of deity or divinity - who will bring about certain changes in the world and fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as "The Messiah".

First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)

To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)

At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was DESTROYED! Just the opposite of this prophecy!

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?



He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

there are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.

All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.

Certainly NOT Jesus.

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taken from :
Judaism 101: Moshiach: The Messiah
Jews-Jesus -- Want to know if Jesus was the Jewish Messiah?

Same thing with Islam they believe Mohammad is the messiah.

unfortunately I know very little about Islam, so I can't discuss about it.

I only know what I learned in college when I took a comparative religion class. Basically in a nutshell they believe Jesus existed but that he was just a prophet. They also believed Mohamed existed and that he was a greater prophet than Jesus was. Hence why they worship Mohammad instead of Jesus.

Hello Max!

sounds a lot like the Mahdi (مهدي)

Hi Max!

IMO the whole idea of the "second coming of Jesus" was just to explain away all the political promises.

Other problems though, like the problems with geneology, are hard to argue around.

In Islam, same as in Christianity Jesus will fight the evil in the final battle and build the millennium reign. But in order to prepare stuff for mohammed.

One of the MAIN reasons the so-called Jews do not believe in Jesus (PBUH) comes from Jesus himself. I'm referring to Mathew 12:39.

Jesus closes the door on any other possibility because he said the ONLY sign of the Messiah is that "AS Jonah..." which means the time frame that the prophet Jonah experienced will be the same for the Mesiah. "AS" means equal to. Jesus was not in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. Taking another or a deeper look into the two situations; Jonah was alive when he was jumped overboard. He (Jonah) did not die in the midst of the raging storm. He (Jonah) was also alive when we was swallowed by the fish (whether the fish was literal or metaphorical). He (Jonah) was alive the 3 days he spent in the belly of the said fish. And he (Jonah) was alive when he was regurgitated up upon the shore. Now when Jesus was up on the cross he too was alive. But what was the state of his being when he was taken down? What was his state of being when he was put in the septulchre and how many days was he there?

If this is the ONLY sign to be given is the sign of Jonah, then Jesus does not fulfill that sign.

And as far as what the muslims believe, they believe that Muhammad is the Seal of the prophets; meaning there will be no other prophet after him. The Messiah comes at the end of time and Muhammad (PBUH)lived and worked among his people over 1400 years ago.

Maxim,
why didn't you post the passages about God blinding Israel and the gentiles being brought into fellowship? That God would not forget all that has come upon you because of what he has caused on behalf of the gentile and that your end would be far better than all nations as a result? hmmMMMMmm????
You left out that little detail, didn't ya?

You also left out all the scriptures that predict his birth, and death precisely. Where are those passages?

The passages you posted are the future earthy reign of Christ. The pharisees and the disciples made the same mistake in thinking the time was then, but Jesus clearly said, NOW is my kingdom not of this world!!!

Hey, how about where John the baptist and Jesus offer the kingdom of heaven (earthly reign to the Jews) and when John was imprisoned Jesus said the kingdom of heaven (earthly reign to the Jews) suffered violence and the violent have taken it by force. The time is fulfilled, and from that time Jesus preached the kingdom of God (spirit realm)?

The last book of the OT saysThe first book of the NT says Luke saysSo he did come and offer the kingdom restoration, knowing the Father would blind them of course. If you are waiting for it to magically appear before you believe you won't. Israel will believe, then the kingdom will come. Read the scriptures. Repeatedly it says He turns to them, they turn to Him, then He establishes the kingdom.

The kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are not the same.....

Oy vey

Eli

bvc, I think those scripts that predict his birth and death are irrelevant as Jesus simply did not fulfill even one of the things that the messiah should fulfill.
therefor he is not our messiah, he did not saved us (the Jews) in any way.
you must also remember that our meaning of messiah is not the english meaning.
he should not be a god or a semi-god as the bible says about Jesus.
the messiah should be a human being Jew, he could be a president a warlord anyone.

I believe that Jesus existed and had some good ideas, but I also believe that he DID NOT come for the Jews, he come for other nations.
he knew we won't believe in him but he also knew that the rest of the world will, so he came, and hatred come after him in his name by the simple people who thought they know everything.


and Manofprinciple :
I don't understand what you have tried to tell us.

Attaching so much importance to ancient scripture seems silly to me.. Who is to say which scriptures where directed by this "god", anyway. One can probably hold any opinion, by just choosing.

Maxim, you didn't address the point. Your post is supposed to explain why Jesus is not the Messiah, but you say nothing of the scriptures that say Messiah would be rejected, Israel would be blinded to his coming, and gentiles would be brought into the fold (if that offends you go back to the Tanakh and even Moses). Kind of 'key' elements don't ya think? The other issues can be explained. Your statements remind me of things Christians say today that spawned from 3rd and 4th century doctrines of men that are not found in Scripture. God doesn't care what the traditions of men say.

Just so you know, I do not believe in a 'spiritual Israel'. That the Church that has become heir to all the promises given to Israel. Sadly a large portion of the Church has fallen for this but they do not understand scripture. All nations will bow to Israel so I'm on your side. I can't expect you to see what God has an appointed time for, concerning Israel, and I can certainly understand why you wouldn't believe in the Jesus you see in the religions of this world. It's not the Jesus I know.

Peace to Israel!

have any scripture references for that? I realize you just copied and pasted and may not know, but, I had to ask. Genesis said the seed of the woman, not the man. Numbers gives tribal inheritance to the women if there be no male to receive it.



That's Solomon, not the Messiah!Again, I realize you just copied and pasted, but you really should search out and study all scripture so that you apply it correctly. The 'Davidic' kingdom is established forever as in tribe of Judah and root of David but that scripture is not about Messiah, but Solomon.

actually I know many jews who believe in Yeshua (Jesus Christ)

****Is this mentioned in Old testament or does this lie more in folklore and heritage wisdom of jewsih people, that it has to be human and not living God and human together among us?

It was sharply pointed from one writer earlier of this seed of woman, from Genesis 3

Also as I searched from bible the term of politic* none were found. Again meaning of words and their origin, and which connotations they have, trying to show out that idea is not from bible that says that Gods Yeshua should be just man and not also God together, and preciously if watching more of book of Isaiah and chapter 11 the whole chapter tells that these magnificent works which He is doing are at least on my scale quite amazing for human being
spoken of this righteousness front of God which is measured by full filling the law, and that no one in sight of God is righteous.

Ps 53:2 God looks down from heaven on the children of men,To see if there are any who understood,Who seek after God. 3.Every one of them has gone back.They have become filthy together.
There is no one who does good, no, not one.

even the concept righteousness in front of law (meaning not to be condemned) is achieved after following law or reconciling mistakes, through different sin offers, by better words with blood offer. If it would be possible for us to be perfect front of Law without offerings why God would have given this offer institution,to be cruel? or merciful?

1.Samuel 15:22 Samuel said, Has Yahweh as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of Yahweh? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams

so even we have those iniquities and sins which has to be reconciled, by blood offer. Leviticus 8:15 , 17:11 So we are not perfect by ourself, our nature is, corrupted after fall in sin. even created once as image of God. Also DAvid asking help against sin:

psalm 19:13 "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins ; Let them not have dominion over me: Then shall I be upright, And I shall be clear from great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in thy sight, O Jehovah, my rock, and my redeemer.

So only God is perfect in front of the law by that way that He don't need offer to cover His sins, he don't sin, so shortly drawn it has to be God, or better said Redeemer to whom all scripts of offers and reconciliation the whole torah itself points to, the one who takes away those sins from His people, who makes himself as sin offer without a spot.


*** ps.2:6 “Yet I have set my king on my holy hill of Zion.7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee.
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To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah. "

*** I disagree that father of Jesus has to be human being, it would be so if the tribe of Judah would be just genetic and national institution, not yet referring even to pagan christians and concept of spiritual Isral of all believers of Christ, but referring to old testamentic concept of spiritual nation, tribe of Yahwe, His own nation, the chosen one among all other nations and Him as the Father of them***

”The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!"

**** He who is Jesus father is real Father of all tribes of Israel, He is the father of all creation and humankind. (in addition of this I have heard that if father is not jew and mother is jew child be jew, but not opposite, this is just assumption where I don't have better knowledge)****
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"The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy."

**** Torah is Gods given law it is not guide as Talmud is, which is not straight given by God and difference between these two books are huge. Another is from divine source and another source is not Godly even it holds parts of wisdom it still is not directly the given will of God. + in addition of this is that Jesus never said that we should cast away the law. because law is perfect and it is will of God, God has given law that it would show His will, referring to earlier sitate from psalm 53 that When God watches us He haven't found anyone in His sight who would be righteous, that it would be visible that no one else than God is perfect, that everyone needs offer to be purified, ****


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Finally Isaiah 53:

1 Who has believed our message? and to whom has the arm of Yahweh been revealed? 2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he has no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He was despised, and rejected by men; a man of suffering, and acquainted with disease: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we didn’t respect him. 4 Surely he has borne our sickness, and carried our suffering; yet we considered him plagued, struck by God, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought our peace was on him; and by his wounds we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he didn’t open his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is mute, so he didn’t open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the disobedience of my people to whom the stroke was due? 9 They made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Yahweh shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

I found really good short clip from youtube which describes shortly and well this Jesus filling out prophecies about 2 mins.

YouTube - Why Did Jesus NOT Fulfill All the Prophecies About Him?

Yes, well....I was going address this one as well, but I wanted feed back on the others first.

Does anyone know why the law was given? Because of the transgression of men. Faith came first with Adam, Enoch, Noah....and Abraham.

I absolutely agree the majority of christians throw the baby out with the bath water concerning the law. For a christian, Jesus fulfilled the law and we are in him and he in us, therefore we establish the law. Yes, read your bible that is what is says. Let it be clear it is not the ceremonial law, but the moral law we establish. A professing christian that lives in sin is not a christian and is not born again. I realize it takes many a scripture to qualify that. I won't take the time. That is my holistic, contextual, historical, view of Scripture.

Since I'm an atheist with only a slight passing interest in Abrahamic religions, I'll throw in what I know.

To the best of my knowledge, what happened with Yeshu was that it got transliterated into Greek, which rendered it into something like Iesous. Romans transliterated the Greek into Latin and got something like Iesus. Jesus is just the Latin transliterated into English.

I've always liked the name Joshua, myself. If you're going to have to transliterate his name at all (and not just call him Yeshu) into English, why something as crazy-sounding as Jesus? What's wrong with Joshua? Josh Christ. Sounds good to me.

I know enough about the languages in question to verify that you're pretty much right. The big change is the one into Greek. Greek doesn't have the 'sh' sound, and masculine names need to end in 's'. So, change the 'sh' to 's' and add an 's' at the end, you pretty much end up with what we got. Since the N.T. is written in Greek, that's what we ended up saying.

My biblical Hebrew language teacher was not only a believer in Yeshua ben Yosef as Moshiach but a holocaust survivor and an Israeli citizen, along with his wife, who also was a holocaust survivor and their sabra children also.
I agree that the majority of Jews do not believe in Yeshua haMoshiach but I know quite a few who do. I have studied the words of the prophets and Yeshua does answer all of the things you say he does not. Have you read the new testament or is it forbidden to you? There are Hebrew versions available there in your holy land.