I think the OP had it about right: god exists as an epistemological entity rather than a metaphysical one. Man created the concept of god to help explain the inexplicable. See this article.

Yes, I do. Can't you tell?
For what? To indubitably prove the existence of God?
I personnally have no desire to do that. However, I am prepared to acknowledge the contribution that a non-existent entity (in my view) can make to the happiness and well-being of our race.
Quite an achievement, don't you think?

I could've never said it better. (mostly because this is not my native language )

However I would like to extend it, and say that during history, God as that concept evolved, and served not only to explain the inexplicable, but to create an order in society (a religious and moral order).

I catch your point, and personally agree, up to some point. Actually I'm making some writings stating the ancestral necessity of human, not for God, but for Faith. There, I'm trying to conclude how faith is more important that the object of devotion, proven that God is just not the same for everybody.

It is insufficient to account for the evil done in the name of all of the various gods, goddesses, demons, etc. that have ever been forced on the mind of man.

It is also insufficient to account for the more fundamental evil of self-delusion and evasion of reality.

I have a question... Off topic a bit, but I'm compelled to ask...

Why do you mention christ so much, but fail to mention god (who, to you is the creator and ruler, right?)

Would it not make more sense to worship the one who you owe your existence to?

I have another question while I'm at it. You speak of "free will" as a bad thing. I don't get it... Personally, I don't believe in free will as I've done enough studies on the workings of the human brain and the anatomy of our physical nature (and I'm well convinced that we are just playing out the initial conditions of some particles in the tide-pool of physical law).

But if you truly believe in free will, why is it a bad thing? Isn't that what makes you... You?

Also, why were Adam and Eve punished for eating the fruit if they had no knowledge of good and evil. According to your bible, they gained that "free will" and knowledge when they ate the fruit, so they couldn't have been responsible for the act of eating it. Yet god certainly punishes them in genesis.

I have to be honest... That doesn't sound like a god I want to worship.

I also don't want to follow a religion who's spotlight character (king david, the one who killed the giant in battle) was a know adulterer and murderer (it's in your bible). In fact, your jesus himself was labeled "Jesus, the son of david, king of the jews". Sounds like david assumed the role of god in those books doesn't it?

It also sounds like jesus was a jew (since he existed before "christianity")... So according to the label, christian (which means christ-like) wouldn't you, yourself, want to convert to judaism?

Anyway... Just picking your brain. I enjoy a good biblical debate from time to time.

Can you elaborate on that some? I don't know of any situations in which science contradicts the belief in God? I know that for Christians who interpret the bible literally there are lots of problems. But that isn't a problem for me.

In my opinion, god is nothing more than some people's way of coping with death and other issuses life throws their way. Religion today has no true merit because of all the hipicritical people in America and other countries. We rape and pillage during the week, but on Sunday ask for forgiveness and expect to go to heaven for eternal peace? Ok...

Well I still think you are agnostic, but I'll clarify my definitions. Maybe you have a different definition. Agnostic is someone who doesn't know if God exists or not. An athiest knows God doesn't exist. But I think I understand what you mean. Wiktionary defines an Atheist as someone who doesn't believe in God, so according to that definition, and your statement, of not believing in something without conclusive evidence.

I am a Christian. As far as God having human characteristics, I don't believe that God does in a very realistic sense. Jesus became human so obviously he does have human characteristics. I do believe that God would come to humans in a way that they understand, and in doing so takes on human characteristics, it also makes sense that if humans are created in the image and likeness of God that God would seem to be similar to humans in some sense. In actuality it is we who are like God.

I've heard people say before that it is arrogant to believe in a God that is like humans, I've never really understood that statement.

I think a lot of the questions you ask come down to free will, God created us with free will and He respects that free will to a very high degree. I don't understand why God seems to respect our free will over suffering, You can choose to hurt someone and God respects that free will. Its something I wonder about. If we didn't have free will and if it was obvious that God existed then it wouldn't be as meritorious to believe in Him.

Agnostics to me are confused by the evidence presented to them. I'm saying that I might believe if I had more evidence, but I don't believe with the evidence I have.

As far as your human-god similarities... So god created animals in his image too (considering the instinctual and physical similarities)?

In terms of created in the image of God, I think that refers to the Intellect and the Will, both of which I don't think animals have.

I disagree.

But what I meant when I said a supreme being wouldn't be like us was all the instinctual traits "god" seems to have. Like jealousy and the need for attention.

I've always wondered how people who really believes in christian God, also believe they have free will. It's not my thinking, it's some interesting contradictions inside bible. God gave us free will, but we must follow his will in order to go to heaven... In other words, you are free to do what you want, but if you do something I don't want you to do, you will not be saved... For me, this is a nonsense.

Neither I think animals have a god. But will you deny dolphins have a great intellect, or will??

I'm not really satisfied with my past posts. You want a conclusive evidence or some sort of proof of the existence of God beyond word games. I don't think I can provide that.

Here is what I believe. That science and religion are compatible, because science describes nature, which the Theist believes was created by God. I've never seen any evidence that contradicts Christianity unless you take certain passages of the bible literally. Light was created before the sun in the book of Genesis-literally this doesn't make sense, but the individual that wrote that didn't seem to have a firm grasp of how the world around him worked. That doesn't matter, I don't think Gods intent in Genesis was to give a scientific account of the earth and the universe. Evolution is compatible with creationism as well. I personally believe that God could have created the world and it unfolded in such a way that humans evolved into what they are from bacteria or whatever it is. I haven't studied evolution in great depth. However, at some point I believe that God instilled in humans the intellect and will, which other animals don't have.

I too believe in keeping an open mind, and I don't think faith inherently causes one to shut down the reason. There are some people who seem to shut down reason and rely only on faith, and I don't agree with this. I think that faith and reason are both very important and that they work together.

You can't prove that God doesn't exist, which isn't an argument for saying that God does exist. I can't prove there isn't a pink unicorn on the dark side of the moon, a pink unicorn that disappears whenever anyone tries to look at it.

Christianity is a very radical idea. There were plenty of people in the past as well as the future who thought Jesus was crazy. If someone today claimed they were the Son of God I doubt I would believe them. However, something about Jesus and his teachings inspired many people to give up their lives for God. Certainly there are other situations in which people have been inspired to give up their lives, but Jesus's teaching still go on today, almost 2000 years later. You can chalk it up as some sort of sociological phenomena, but that doesn't convince me.

I think that belief in God is reasonable, even if you can't get to it by reason alone (Maybe you can, Aristotle thought you could). I think that faith in God is a gift, something you have to be open to. I've had powerful experiences of peace and happiness that I attribute to God. I've also had very hard times that I attribute getting through to God. I don't expect that to convince everyone or necessarily anyone that God does exist, but it strengthens my faith.

I know that some of these arguments are not going to satisfy the individual that demands hard and fast proofs or undeniable evidence, but maybe you'll understand more of where I'm coming from. Maybe you won't think that Theists are all stupid, blind, closed off to reason and evidence, etc.

Well, at some point, humans inherited this traits also. Humans felt jealous when God puts more attention to others than themselves...

It was, actually, one of the many social phenomenon I was talking about. Jesus gave a new way to fight against roman empire. The society in which Jesus grew felt deeply encouraged with his movement due to the hope nature of it. When this movement grew up to the point of represent a thread to Rome, Rome did the most logic thing to do. Join it. So Rome mixed his rituals to the Christian philosophies to create a whole new movement, and being Rome the dominant power, it was easily spread through the occident. These people you talked about weren't inspired to give their lives to God, they saw an ideology of love and equity, and God a way to obtain that equity.

Personally, I don't think theists are any of the above... But as for myself, I am not a theist. Even if there was a higher being, I wouldn't call it god (as I believe there is too much "magic" and "spirit" stigma to that label).

I also don't "demand" hard proof because I don't "demand" god. I take things as they come... And proof of god has not came yet.

It's like everyone is trying to guess what's inside the party-bag (and basing their entire LIFE around it).

Personally, I don't even think there is a party bag, so I'll hold off on any guessing for the time being.

I don't think it's stubborn to not believe in something that you have ZERO evidence for.

People have told me they've seen ghosts... I've even heard people say they've personally been abducted by aliens. But I'm not going to waste my life based on their word... I'll wait until an alien sticks a probe in MY ass or a ghost "boo"s at me, then I will believe them.

(btw, the existence of aliens, IMO, is much much more probable then the existence of some sort of human-like creator)

The feeling of Faith in His glory has nothing to do with looking behind the curtian. It's more like a beleif in a higher power. A loving eternity for all mankind if you follow His guidelines.

May the Lord be forever with you.

Nobody disputes that the concept of God exists. What is in despite is the reality of the being of God. Get out of the subjective mind and into objective reality.