Can someone please explain to me the apparent contradiction of christian's who believe in the death penalty. (I know many do not too).

Old Testament "eye for an eye" justification does not cut it.
We are talking Christian (turn the other cheek) here not Moses.

at first:I'm against death penality.


I think one of the reasons for death penality is the financial aspect.

the state does not have to pay so much for dead guys instead of guys who are on their paylist for 50 or 60 years.

In Germany you'll get free after a maximum of 20 or 25 years for terrorism or mass murder for example.

"ordinary" murderers for example get 15 years max.

Is he using the Old Testament for punishment reference?

I'm for the death penalty and I'm Christian. I have an obligation to protect my family. Killing murders and rapists keeps those who would consider it wondering whether it would be worth dieing for. I live in a country with the highest crime rate in the world. Ever since the death penalty got taken away crime has skyrocketed each year. It's easy to blow things out of perspective - I'm no philosopher and I'm not really in a position to argue the precise meaning of biblical metaphors but in certain extremes like war and african crime I think killing unfortunately plays a daily role. Christian or not - you are affected by crime.

NationMaster - Statistics > Murders (per capita) by country
NationMaster - South African Crime statistics

VS Germany

NationMaster - German Crime statistics


Colombia has more murders but I think in total crime South Africa is still top in the world.

That's actually not true. You'd be surprised how much it costs to kill someone. Especially considering that nobody in their right mind would pass up the appeal process, so that's more court dates, more lawyer fees, etc, etc, ad nauseum. It's actually cheaper in the long run (usually) to let them live.

I don't have a source for this, but I'll look for it later.

So Rudolfmdlt, you are basicly saying you are better than other people...and because you are good and the others are bad, therefore they should die?

I'm guessing the Christians who always turned the other cheek were wiped out. Since the New Testament policy failed, the previous policy of inflicting equal damage on perceived enemies was revived.

Although many modern Christians probably use both aproaches at different times. Perhaps the conflicting rules cancel each other out.

That's the most misinformed piece of thinking I've heard in a long time. Death penalty is not a deterrant to crime. People comit serious crimes due to financial and sociological poverty, mental health issues, substance dependence or lack of attainable social goals. Killing a murder solves nothing. The murder victim is still dead. Nothing has been addressed. What needs to be looked at are the underlying problems that contribute to high crime levels, not punishing crime harshly that has already been commited. Society is to blame for crime and its society that needs to look at itself and address the issue.

In the 18th and 19th century in Britain, even the most innocuous crimes were dealt with harshly - children were deported to australia for stealing a loaf of bread, and an adult could be hanged for doing the same thing. Didn't stop crime. If people are hungry enough and desperate enough, no deterrent is strong enough to will stop someone. What needs to be done is to look at what can effectively prevent the crime to start with. There is an adage that states: "its better to have a fence at the top of the cliff than an ambulance at the bottom."

The death penalty solves zilch.

@lakersforce:

Not better no. Sick of crime. I'm 20 years old, I've been robbed 3 times, my mother beaten unconscious with a pistol, Held up at gun point once, and one of our cars have been stolen.

Now - I'm not for killing car thieves, but killing rapest and murders yeah.


@yaaarrrgg

I actually found that funny!

Guys - things should be taken in perspective. If some one steals something from you, walk away - he'll get whats coming to him sooner or later. If some one starts choking your family members one by one or starts raping your wife in front of your kids(happens atleast a couple of times a year in SA), don't turn the other cheek kill the SOB, or at least incapacitate him.

@koshatnik

Agreed. BUT:

"financial and sociological poverty" "substance dependence or lack of attainable social goals"

The above people will think twice when they do rob a house whether to just tie up it's owners or to kill the men, rape the women and the kill the women as well. This year alone, i have heard of people being killed for there cell phones. People getting shot on sight in a robbery because it's easier to kill than to confront. Dead victims don't testify in court nor do the phone the police or put up a fight. The criminals that fall in to the above category are desperate yes and will steel yes, but they can still weigh out there options. They have no respect for my life but they still want to live - thats why they steel in the first place. By threatening there lives by the very fact that they threaten yours i believe is a deterrent.

This group can have one of a thousand derivatives. For arguments sake, mentally ill people that are violent have a different set of reference frames of what they consider normal and acceptable. Thus - hanging a crazy man I think is harsh and I agree with you that they should not be condemned to death.

Agreed - White people in the 50ties Started Apartheid and affectively put the country 20 years behind first world countries. They denied Maths and Physics to black highschool students and now we have 25 million very poor black people in the country. This is what cause the "financial and sociological poverty, substance dependence or lack of attainable social goals." you speak of.

Depends on whats on top of the cliff. (I don't really follow the above)

On the topic of rapests:

2 types:

1) Mentally ill - I have already said what i have to say.

2) Predators and FCkers that take advantage of women. Date rape drugs ect. If you drug a girl and rape her, or rape a baby(yes a baby) to get rid of the HIV that you got because of sex with too many people in the first place then I'll pull the trigger myself. this a personal thing. You do not rape.

I disagree. It provides form of revenge to a victims family should they want it. It provides some form of deterrent.

I agree with all three above posters that the death penalty is not a nice thing to have in country, and that it is not the best way to fight crime, solving the social poverty bit is the solution, but as a Christian I can justify killing in certain circumstances and the fact that crime is rampant in my country, 20 years back this was not the case, the death penalty does serve as a deterrent to some form, people that are ten years older than myself can testify to this(i was seven when the death penalty was ablished in my country so I don't really have useful info from that time period ).

Anyway - hope some questions where answered

Cheers,

Rudolf

You hit the point. I believe Christians in favor of such a barbarity have serious problems with their beliefs. When you have poison-ivy in your garden, you don't just cut-off the leaves, you take it off from the root. So, why should society just cut the leaves??

OK, revenge, such a Christian value...

Im not christian but really.

Kill em all, Let God Sort em out.

in the uk, prisons are overcrowded, so what do they do, they let people out early - you can murder someone and be free in four years! you can rape someone and be out in less, then be handed a council house in the same area as your victim, at the taxpayers expense!

prison is meant to be a deterrent, as is the death penalty, if it was up to me it would be tomorrow.

prison is meant to be a punishment, not in the uk though! if it was up to me it would be tomorrow.

violent crime against people and property should be severely punished, and the death penalty should go with it for serious, or constantly repeated crime.

i would rather build prisons up and down the country and sleep safe at night. i would rather see murderers and rapists hanged, or electrocuted, or shot, than have them pampered inside a cushy prison with all the amenities of the day at the tax-payers expense, then given all the costly (and useless) rehabilitation that they get, especially when some hospitals cannot afford the medicine to treat cancer patients.

these people are scum, and should be treated as such!

What gives you the right to call "scum" another human being?? You are not better than them as you're hoping their dead!!

I am a Christian and I do not support the death penalty so I can not answer the question.

the mere fact that i don't rape and murder is justification to me that i am better than them, both morally, and legally. as far as i am concerned, if it is ultimately up to God to be the judge, then why keep him (or her) waiting?

killing even these criminals makes you a murderer.

additional court dates, lawyer fees etc does also apply on life sentence.

Revenge isn't a Christian value....

he was being sarcastic