Thats BS! killing and raping women and children is totally different from exterminating scum.

killing = killing. there is no good killing.

if you kill "scum" you are "scum" yourself.

So then, GW Bush is also scum, as he organized this pathetic war against a lot of innocent people. So, he should be on the chair under your terms, doesn't he. Go and tell him that, and let's see who'll be in the chair...

The act of killing, and the will of kill is not that much different. In the end, is the intention what counts!

@MRiGnS

So you make no discretion between killing for self-defense, lust, hate, revenge, under the influence of drugs or alchohol? May I ask what you purpose we do to people that rape 2 and 3 year old babies? Not an ideal that may happen in 20 or 30 years. a Solution within the next 3 years.

Killing = Killing as in the net result is death.

killing >< killing when it's done in self defense, in war or as murder.

You have to see the difference? maybe not like my argument but there definitely is a difference.

I never voted for Bush - Actually I live a 20 hour flight from Washington. I don't care for Bush - I do think the war is pointless but I care more for the rape and killing in my Country. And lots of people have protested against old GW - and they still are alive and kinking.

Oh I would LOVE to see you tell that to the faces of the family of a rape/murder victim....

Oh sure, you're so humanist you care so much for that people... How do you think would feel the mother of one of these murderers and rapers? not only to see his child committed such a reproachable act, but to see people like you, not interest even about the possible reasons that lead those to commit the crime, but willing the worst for them. Crimes as those are committed because of people like YOU, who think about revenge instead of help solving them with real preemptive solutions of the social order.

In my country there's a lot of robbery and drugs... WHY?, because people is hungry. Reduce the social branch and give people good employs, and it will decrease. In your country there's a lot of murders? Find out the reasons, but as long as I notice, it could be perhaps because of that hate...

all of that talk about the old testament supporting the death penalty should be cleared up a bit. In the bible the death penalty was carried out under certain conditions. Life for life. But there were provisions made for those who would accidentally cause the death of someone, there were cities of refuge where they could go and remain safe. The penalty was only carried out if it was beyond dispute. Cases were often brought before the older members of the community. Life was viewed as very sacred. Even such things as causing the death of an unborn baby carried the death sentence. Anyway

I think that the death penalty is something which should be considered as a last resort. I agree strongly that things should be equal and justice served. In my opinion, it all has to do with what justice demands. The problem today is that justice is not perfect. Systems protect those who commit crimes. I believe that one who willingly ends the lives of others forfeits their own humanity, the privileges that humanity brings, their own right to live.

I used to support the death penalty, but not anymore.

Sure there are guys out there that commit heinous crimes that might have it coming, but for every one of those, there seems to be an innocent man caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, who couldn't get a decent lawyer and got railroaded to death row so the DA could get another notch on his gun.

Executing innocent people is unacceptable, and has happened way too many times in this country. That's one reason why I'm opposed to the death penalty.

The other reason is that it doesn't really solve anything. It isn't even cheaper than life imprisonment - all the legal trappings that have to go with an execution to keep even more innocent people from getting executed costs more than it would cost simply to have a less elaborate trial and give him a life sentence. Besides, if you kill the fucker, you're not going to bring your loved one back, and you just joined the ranks of those who have killed.

I just can't support the death penalty in good conscience anymore. It needs to be abolished. For the really monstrous offenders, give them a life sentence in solitary confinement.

It has nothing to do with Religion, that's the glory of the seperation of church and state, is that citizens of liberal societies actually enact that seperation in their daily life. Note for example welfare, which seems to be highly Christian, is ardently opposed by most Christian members of society because that is the place of an Christian individual and not the government. Locke wrote in his Second Treatise on Government that the death penalty is necessary in the situation of a Liberal government founded on a social contract, because the death penalty is the ultimate demonstration of the power instilled in the state by that social contract, and it is for this reason that we gave up our natural right to everything. Thus the death penalty is the ultimate proof of the power of the state, and should affirm us in our belief that we have done the right thing by joining the state, as the state enacts harsh punishments against those who would seek to take away the rights guarenteed to us by our social contract.

Of course Foucault would disagree, and say that this is the greatest example of the insecurity of the masses, and the highest act of the insecure Christian, as he needs to kill or imprison all of those who do not act in a Christian manner, in order to ensure that they are "normal." Who's right . . . well I can't decide that for you.

The funny thing about that statement is that multiple books in the bible make the statement "gods word never changes"

Despite the obvious leap from old to new testaments. But hey... Nobodies perfect, not even god

There's no difference for me.

What does killing somebody by lethal injection or the electric chair do for the families, pretty much nothing. It doesn't bring back their loved one's and the state spends so much fucking money to kill this person and then turn around and bitch because they have no money.

Death Penalty is about worthless in my opinion and has anybody analyzed serial killers to see why they do what they do. Has anybody ever analyzed child molesters to see why the molest children. If you honestly think about it our brain controls all of our functions, so has anybody ever thought that it might be a psychological problem. Do we treat them for psychological problems, no. We throw them in a jail and let them rot. I not condoning what people do for the record.

so true


We don't fight the problems we only fight it's symptoms

I have no idea what logic you follow or how you get to that conclusion.

PROPOSED SOLUTION?

Let me rephrase. Rapeing a kid, if you are a nut, then lets re-evaluate and treat you like a an insane person, put you in a special hospital ect... if you are a sane man, that has HIV, and because of a mith you go rapeing children then you deserve... You know what? Please present a solution that will keep people from doing things like this. Something that either scares them or educates them or something. Something that will let mothers sleep better at night knowing there babies (in townships\squatercamps) are safe.

You guys are against the death penalty - then please propose an alternative.

How do you keep Law and order? how do you provide jobs for 25 million people in my country? How do we eradicate crime and rape?

Here is how I see it:

In 100 years from now, AIDS will have killed more than half the people in my country. the economy will have a mild crash recover over time and in about 100 years, crime and the HUGE in-equalities will be smoothed out, then I'll be against the death penalty because then it will be a totally different ball game.

But right now - you can't come and crash a party without an alternative.

It's very easy being all humane and "fair", but people still die and get reaped in my country. I'm not talking about I'm talking about perfectly sane opportunists, and here's the cool part, the gangs that rob are run by rich people, pawn shops and ect. There are no social in-equalities and no mental issues here. What do you propose we do to the crime boss? Like you go to work every morning, so they go to work every night. Raping a house wife/daughter is just a bonus.

So what do you propose we do?

In that aspect its greed, ego and power getting in the way. Until people eliminate greed we will always have that problem. I'm talking about people like John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, people like that. Thats why I suggested analyzing them and figuring out what exactly caused them to commit murder etc... Until you know exactly what is causing this to happen, you can't come up with a solution, you can only fix the small problems. Its like cutting your hand off and trying to use a bandage to fix it.

True - but unfortunately in reality thats an ideal, though i do agree with you.

But the Big Headlines serial killer does minimal damage if you look at the total amount of murders a year. It would be great if there could be a psychological or genetic scan that could pick up trates for mental illness quickly and effectively.

In the same aspect if they tried genetic scanning or something like that people would scream that their civil rights are being abused. It seems like their is a catch 22 with everything.

Killing him does not seem to stop the next guy from doing it. And taking away his freedom when he only have a limited livespan left, seems like enough punishment to me. Then he will be forced to use the rest of his life to reflect on the crime he has done. And that is actually the true punishment.

Again, how about to try and make people reflect over their crimes? Killing them solves zilch.

Are you suggestioning we provide jobs for 25 million people by making them kill others?

Sounds pretty doomsday like to me. You could prevent this catastrophe simply by using a condom.


You seriously think that gang problems come out of nothing?


Yes, I know, I did not actually say much myself, except commenting on your post. But I simply can not see any logic in your arguements.

Life in jail is better than life in most townships. Some people get out of jail, steel a car, ussually shoot or stab the person on the inside, and go straight back.

see above. you are doing them a favor
Nope - but they are already killing each other: HIV. anyway, it was proposed that we get rid of social and economic poverty, ie get them jobs so that they can get themselves a better living and stop stealing
Been trying - They just don't use them. 50% of people at University ARE ALREADY HIV positive. Think about the economics: Half the people that the country's economy trains will give a zero return. In order for the economics to work, the state needs you to work, create jobs and pay taxes so that the state can fund the next generation of students. Anti retro virals only help a very small percentage of people that are 100% committed to taking the meds.

No - getting them jobs would solve the situation. Where do you propose we find jobs for 25 million people where about half you train won't be able to come to work in 2 to 10 years time because of HIV. Then you are not allowed to fire them as the law does not permit this dew to the already high jobless situation. Firing someone due to sickness is discrimination. now you need to train some one again and pay 2 people for one job.

It's much worse than you think.

Did this help? don't mind posing if you still don't follow or if I'm still not clear.

[PS: this is getting off topic, but i suppose it's still relevant.]

Where does the pain threshold lie? When the amount of pain caused by crime out weighs tha pain of giving up a civil right then people will comply. But there is a bright side to this. I think by the time this technology exists, the world would be a much more peaceful place as far as crime is concerned(I thinking 40 to 50 years+), and then maybe it won't be that necessary.

These people should be castrated as a matter of course. Indeed, I believe that it should be the law that people unfortunate enough to have these heinous tendencies should volunteer for castration before they cause untold psychological damage to the child and his/her family.
I believe this will also have some beneficial genetic engineering effects in that whatever genes are encouraging this activity will become rarer and rarer in the human species.