theres no 'high road' that anyones trying to take, were merely trying to cede from you some sort of reasonable proof and justification for believing in a supernatural power other than "you cant disprove it" which is what you keep repeating, when the playing fields are not level because there IS no evidence that a god is required for anything in the known universe, whereas there is NO evidence to the contrary,

as have faeries, unicorns, goblins and dragons. it doesn't stop evidence being required for anyone to accept their existence.

The problem in general with the so called 'religious people' is that they can not understand there are different points of view and that people is actually free to embrace anyone of them (not just their particular religion) and that they have no right to fight them just because of their beliefs.

If any given religious group is unable to respect civilian rights and stop fighting those who think different (for God's sake, where are not in the X century) then it has lost my support.

so because i happen to disagree with you it's considered trolling ?

No claim I've made is illogical. I've answered the questions you asked; you're just not content with the answers you got.

No, comments like "although i could bet that the day there is evidence that there is indeed a god that could grant you serenity, courage and wisdom, you'd be the first to spam the boards with "see, i told you so..."" make it trolling.

The term Troll is often used as an insult in online communications, resulting in it being largely misapplied.

i personally think it's a valid claim ... i've met a lot of believers who play the scientific card when they think it's in their advantage and switch back to the non overlapping magisteria argument when science is against them.

what don't you simply acknowledge or refute it ?

I'm irreligious, but these athiests trying to convert people are hilarious, to me. They're trying to turn athiesm into a religion, and they miss the irony altogether.

Anyone else seen that South Park episode?

if atheism is a religion, baldness is a hair color.

Quite.

That's exactly what I was trying to imply before.

And not playing soccer is a sport.

But the clear fact that atheism isn't a religion doesn't mean that atheists can't show other people the sheer ridiculousness of their belief systems. Trying to do so is hardly "converting" people, it's de-converting them. Or would you argue that a debate over which movie is better is an attempt to "convert" people to a religion also?

Ok, let's try to clarify the atheist position once more, shall we:

If a friend of mine were to come up to me and tell me that he doesn't actually move around using his feet, but that, instead, he floats around on a cloud, I would probably say to him: 'But I can see your feet, they're right there. I don't see no cloud, however.'
And if he, then, would say: 'Ah, that's because you don't believe in the cloud. To you, the cloud manifests itself as my feet, but I assure you, it's a cloud. If you only have faith in the cloud, you, too, will never have to worry about buying footwear again.'
I would then probably say something like: 'Yeah, whatever, you crazy \strokes gently\'
Now, my friend is allowed to believe whatever he wants, as long as his beliefs do not directly cause him to harm others.
If my friend decides to believe something that has absolutely no grounding in reality, and for which there exists not a shred of evidence, I am allowed to call him a crazy \strokes gently\.
He will not go into a huff because of this, for he knows he cannot give a rational justification of his behaviour.
I will not run after him everywhere, calling him a crazy \strokes gently\, but whenever he decides to bring up the subject and starts proclaiming his beliefs in my presence, I will call him a you-know-what. This is in no way meant to denigrate him, it is merely a statement of fact; he is being completely irrational and he should accept that he cannot make his case with any amount of reasoning.
His is, quite literally, an unreasonable position, and he's entitled to it, as far as I'm concerned.
Just don't give me any of that jibba jabba.

Call it what you want - it's the same God damned "I shall enlighten you" attitude as evangelicals.

You're so full of bullshit it's ridiculous. I suppose anyone who has some political viewpoint and attempts to provide reasons for it is an "evangelical" as well.

You're being quite ignorant really.

The whole concept of trying to dis-prove someone's personal beliefs is just as much converting someone as trying to prove your beliefs to someone else. It just so happens, you only seem to acknowledge this when you're the one being proselytized to.

as far as im concerned im not trying to disprove anyones beliefs, im merely asking for evidence that backs up their beliefs, they have yet to present any, and am presenting evidence that supports the opposite view. if anyone feels ive said anything out of line in this thread please let me know.

that said joshj needs to stop being so aggressive and abrasive to everyone and butteblue needs to stop presenting disproof as the wall to all other arguements.

What I've been trying to say is that evidence cannot prove or dis-prove God, so that requesting evidence does nothing.

Which is the intellectual equivalent of going "neener neener I can't be wrong". If you can't understand why that is unacceptable then I don't know what to say.

but from the evidence against god you can deduce that no higher power was needed for the evolution of life, no higher power was needed for the beginnings of life, no higher power was needed for the formation of the planets and stars, hence if such a god does not need to have done anything at all, then why assume such a creature exists at all?

even if there were absolutely no proof either way, it falls back to the other fictitious creatures argument because theres absolutely no disprove of fairies should we take it a 50/50 probabilty that faires exist?

The issue at hand is not so much religion or non religion, but one of tolerance. I would say that most Christians and most atheists are content to live their lives very comfortable..not only with their own set of beliefs, but with a perfect comfort level that there are others who do not share their personal beliefs on deism.

However, there are others who have an intolerance that others dare to believe differently. There are Christians, atheists, and believers of Islam that would prefer the voices of those who have a different opinion on matters should be, in some way, subjugated and restricted.

I have seen quite a bit of that intolerance here. But do not feel too bad, I see that intolerance everywhere I look I am glad that the vocal minority is not reflective of the rest of us...they are just kinda like the loud uncle at Thanksgiving after his third shot of Jack.