I´m not really going to comment on your beliefs, rather I will point to the fact that your mentioning "silly judeo-christians" means that you are painting yourself to be rather ignorant of the rights of others to believe whatever they want to believe. To paint someone as "silly" just because they don't believe what you believe is rather immature in my view.

I, for one, am one of those people who you so ignorantly call "silly" people and I think it is terrible that your post was allowed to remain unedited by those who regulate the information on here.

Please try and think that its well within my remit to think that your belief systems seem rather "silly" but I would be remiss to mention it....oops!

Try better next time 3/10

i'm an atheist.

that was a very personal decision when i was around 14-15. because god seem to very useless image that inprison people. after i became an atheist i start to believe in human.

after a few years later, i started the think about concept of god seriously. but it's very long to write here, and i don't believe myself if i can write with right words in english. with very simple explanations: i do believe that bibles & images of god is kind of political act. i do believe that bibles are well written political books to control over people and order.

for example making something holy is part of this action. like religious rituals. as i observed, religions is getting simpler: for example lastly settled (and largely accepted) accepted "islam" has no actor between god & individual. and also rituals getting simpler... clothes of religous people are also changing. from glitter clothes to simpler clothes. but religion still remain same in it's basic sense. controlling over people.

i grew up in a %95 islamic country, so i can mostly observed "islam". but it can be seen that all one-god religions are same in their basics. like ten commands... and these can also traced back to archaic beliefs like shamanism & mesopotamian/greek mithologies.

beliveing in god is painless; because getting know hurts.
[sorry i jumped from one subject to another]

Protestant Christianity is laxing ritually. There are essentially two rituals: Baptism and Communion. Neither of them are nessesary to God, but he suggested we observe them. We don't need an intercessor (like the Catholics practice with priests) as Jesus pulls that weight for us.


It is hard sometimes to seperate politics and religion because they invariably intermix and religion has commonly been weilded as a tool over people to get them to do someone's bidding (as I said earlier, think inquisition. That or the Crusades).

You can look at every religion as institution or as massage.if you see it as massage and massage is love and compassion then becomes irelevant wich religion (if any) you belong.

I'm a Christian. Although I've been in church all my life, I don't see myself as a Christian for that, I see myself as a Christian because I have a firm belief that Christ is Lord. I've seen things that have tested my faith, but in the end I have stayed with it. Although I'm not perfect, I try to live as I believe God says I should, and not to be a hypocrite. Although I'm a Christian, I like to listen to people talk about what they believe and why they believe it.
~montgoej

saying you dont buy the religion but you buy the message is no different from reading an aesops fable and saying "i dont think this actually happened but the book makes a good analogy"

I used to be at that point. Eventually I came to terms with the fundamentalists in our church do not reflect myself, and anyone who thinks otherwise will soon find out how different I am. So to answer your question, I'm a christian

I've grown up in the church, but about seventh grade I went to expeirment with other faiths. Really the only one I could sympathise with was Wiccanism, and even that in the end didn't work out for me, I just couldn't put stock in all of what it taught. So I went back to Christianity to try it. Christianity is a faith, or a spirituality, and hardly a religion. Christianity is a journey with Christ, and I thought that was awesome. Even when my family practically fell apart my junior year, I was able to hold on to Christianity, even if I couldn't hold on to the church I went to. (the people there were overly judgemental, they looked down on me for things my twin sister did, and were very superficial christians. This was about the time I became a follower of Jesus and denounced myself as a Christian)

When I was a freshman in college, I screwed myself up bad. I did a few things I wasn't proud of and I really didn't have anyone to talk to about it. And the GUILT was over whelming. Well the youth pastor on campus was awesome, and with hardly knowing the guy (I had a bad expierence with my high school youth pastor), I took his advice. He prayed with me, and he gave me a book of the bible to read. And whenever guilt came, I'd call out to God, and I kid you not I would feel better. Psychological? You could write it off as that. But I think it's something higher than pure psyche. Just to know that God hasn't abandoned me throughout my life makes me feel good, and knowing I have someone to talk to is very cool.

how beautifully Asimov put it:

"I prefer rationalism to atheism. The question of God and other objects-of-faith are outside reason and play no part in rationalism, thus you don't have to waste your time in either attacking or defending."

ive never heard that particular quote before but i like it, it is indeed well worded.

but i prefer to use the word atheist in common language, if only so people understand that i wont sway on the matter without proof, (that includes the aging overweight jehovas witnesses who wouldnt leave me alone in the queue for a dragonforce gig, you know who you are...)

--------------------------------------

I find it amusing that there were Jehova's Witnesses in line for dragonforce! I'd think Dragonforce's lyrics would be a little too mystical for them.

they werent in line, they were theyre telling us to repent and handing out leaflets. being in a queue makes you stationary fodder i guess...

This is a big, complicated issue (to say the least), and I'll try to be brief...no promises, though. Sorry!

I'm an atheist. I wasn't raised religiously (my parents are Unitarian Universalist). In my family, analysis and independent thought are valued very highly, and I learned both at a young age. I like that--I am a true skeptic with a passion for learning. It's also helped me to be able to look at different beliefs/points of view objectively. I joke that I'm biologically incapable of faith...it's not biological, but I feel like I just don't have it in me. I want double-blind empirical studies for everything.

Maybe I need to become a true believer to find that proof, but I can't become a believer without it. I've tried, actually--I have some good friends that are very religious (Christian) that I've talked to a lot about religion. I've tried to understand their faith because I envy it--they have it to rely on, to give them strength...I don't have that.

Overall, I think that spirituality is a wonderful thing. My issue lies more with religion. From my outside perspective, a relationship with [your deity/dieties here] should be personal, not proscribed and regulated by an organization. It seems to me that religion/spirituality gives people strength, peace, understanding, etc. It makes them feel better and safer--good! I feel that way about ALL religions/beliefs, though. If it makes you feel better about things, fine. I don't care if it's Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism, Hindu, Wicca/Pagan, animistic beliefs...it's all the same to me, regardless of how many people believe it.

The people I know who have really examined their beliefs and faith really are pretty happy and well-adjusted and they have their faith to support them. Unfortunately, it seems that many (most?) people never truly examine their beliefs and whether they're right for them.

I refer to myself as an atheist. That doesn't mean I can't be wrong! I'm sure of myself, but I don't know everything. I figure that if I am wrong, then either [diety] will forgive me for not believing because I needed proof or I'll be punished, in which case I didn't want to believe in [deity] anyway!

A lot of people have very negative views of atheism. We're not all bad people! I have my own moral code and values that I adhere to--some things are NOT ok and never will be. Just because I do not believe in any sort of higher power does not mean I'm immoral. I do believe in people. I think everyone has the potential to do great things, and people will (almost always) do what they think is right. I can believe in that, I can see that...I just can't make the leap of faith it takes to believe in something I can't see, hear, feel, or prove.

Does any of that make sense? Sorry to ramble on like that...

Ahhh ok, that makes more sense. Luckily, we have yet to have anyone stop by at home and ask us about it, although we did get a copy of the Watchtower stuck in our door once.

It appears that I am the only Catholic here. Funny.

How did the Inquisition change the fundamental nature of the Church?

I took the opposite route...went to Catholic school, communion, confirmation, etc.

Then I read Atlas Shrugged, found a guy in there I liked (several, actually), and am working to pattern my life after him (or an amalgam of the several, anyway), The difference is, I can achieve that. Can you say the same?

The answer is in the quote.

QFT++

Attacking religion is like poking at vapors - there's really nothing there to fight.

Unfortunately, given the sway it has over large swaths of humanity, it cannot be safely ignored.

Though I am not christian in any capacity I understand quite clearly some of its doctrines. Speaking purely from an outsider perspective it has a level of organization that some other monotheistic religions dont have. It teaches moral and ethical value and an expressed interest in maintaining peace , albeit somewhat predestined peace in its denounment, but still peace none the less. Admireable as it may be the bible itself is a fascinating read, even to one as myself who is not clearly christian nor ever will be. Much of the parables that are taught in the bible are themselve more clearly seen and understood than in some of the ambiguous ones you find in the Koran or even the Eastern texts (I Ching comes to mind). And honestly, those parables are actually somewhat enjoyable to actually read, or certainly learn from.

That be said most of my upbringing was neo-druidic in nature. Members of the OBOD are all over the world, and for general purpose considered to be relatively benevolent in nature. Interest in the order can be expressed here and Ill try to guide you in the proper direction if you would like.

I have no religion, as all religions are (mostly, but I'm referring to core beliefs here) unfalsifiable beliefs propped up by memetics, violence, and threats of punishment.

There is no shred of evidence for any religion that I know of, and plenty of evidence against them- not to mention the general negative effect religions have on society as a whole, individual thought and rationality, and progress in general.

I am agnostic in that I believe that it's technically impossible to be 100% for sure that there is a god or not.

I am an atheist in that I do not believe that there is a god. The only possibility for one that I will even consider is along the lines of deism, in that a god created the universe and went off and just was playing with his dick this whole time. Prayer is a silly superstitious belief, and your holy text is probably lying to you. Miracles don't happen, only phenomena for which science is still lacking an explanation and scams. Just because science can't explain it doesn't mean your god did it, nor indeed does it mean that any god did it. It's just that way as determined by the laws of nature and the universe to which everything must hold to. Exceptions to any given law are not truly exceptions, and merely special cases, such as when there are apparent exceptions in human law. Attempting to say that anything that science can't explain at this time must be an act of god is silly, and you're just reaching for a simple explanation rather than working for a real one.

I am all for any religion that is nontheistic, be it Buddhism, Secular Humanism, Yoism, or whatever. Anything else (with the exception of Deism, as stated above) is just silly, and probably brought about upon you by societal pressure, your upbringing, or your lack of understanding followed up by a seeming answer in religion, which led you down a path that you took in because of one silly thing and then followed on to accept because it just came with the package. Another possible reason could be for the comfort factor (opiate of the people etc). Do I really need to go into that one? Seriously.

If you mix and match your theistic religion(s) with others, theistic or not, you've probably noticed that none of them can really say they are the one true religion, because they're all wrong at some point or another. You have taken a step in the right direction.

Apologists, feel free to waste your time on me, but I'd greatly encourage you to instead question your own beliefs, and see where they fail. If you do not succeed in finding failure with your religion, I will be glad to help you out. I will be willing to listen to your arguments for your religion as well as arguments against my own choice of no religion as long as you are willing to listen to my arguments against your religion and indeed against theistic religion in general.

Kiss kiss. Look forward to hearing back from you. :-*

don't worry. it really makes sense. it's like understanding anarchists only as terrorirsts. however anarchists also have morality/ethics. like posted before: athest (at least i am) believes in human. (like ubuntu :P)