Hey MRiGnS

Uh no..its not like that..but I am amused how you enjoy taking me apart and the fact that you chicken out to actually seek God on your own,,as your denial of the fact that he is Lord is absolutely magnified. Ok,.,,let me see..do I forgive Hillary for her silly and repeated responces to Bill because she keeps him around because of the power he has..let me see..is that love M? well is it? who is she fooling..who are you fooling?

I forgive her,,though its not for me to do so..but do I? sure..now will that reason with her authority as far as a presidentual postion? uhm I should say not..what does forgiving Bill and being repeatedly offended against say about this womans image ey M? are there underlying issues your not bringing forth? is moral a question of what your all about?

Sherri

Hey all..

I am voting for McCain to take the votes from Hillary and Obama..Oh my gosh..this time dont only burn the witch but make sure her ashes are placed in the demon swallows itself.

I told my husband..I am not crazy about McCain but like the fact that he has been in the real world and has had a taste of what many of us have been very forunate to not have experienced..but be sure to know..I will not vote Hillary or Obama in his stead..those two people are sub standard raw material..so I will go with my gut..geezzzzz its not like Hillary and Obama have not been immaterial to the nature of what is going on..geezzzzz I mean really..

Sherri

If McCain gets elected I hope he isn't as crazy as he's making himself out to be. That or maybe he just wont be able to do some of things he says he will. Regardless of our next president he (or she) needs to follow the constitution. Also I don't think we need to be getting into any more wars. I'm not a hippy it's just stupid. We already fucked up in one country.

I appreciate that. My record is as clean as that of the sitting president, and arguably cleaner than either of the Democratic candidates. McCain probably has me beat.

Credibility with the military? Not sure what that means. I have more than twice the time served than the sitting president and all the candidates combined, but McCain certainly showed more bravery and dedication in one week than I have my entire career considering what those animals subjected him to.

Education. I'm curious to know how much formal education you'd guess I have.

I am certainly NOT a people person. I realize I come off all sweet and loveable and tactful here on the forums, but to be honest, that's just my online persona, in real life I can be difficult.

McCain is not a bad guy, I think, although his age really worries me. Considering the factors that:

1. he'll be 72 year old as president
2. life expectancy of U.S. males is around 76
3. a presidency seriously ages a person
4. being tortured ages a person mentally
5. the mind is the first thing to go

... I figure that his marbles will only survive about 2 years in the oval office.

I don't think he's actually that big of a flip flop (like the youtube video reveals). I think the problem is that he honestly cant remember what his positions on different topic are.

From what I recall that isn't saying a whole lot

I took the video to suggest senility more than deliberate lies myself (if one wants to look beyond the inconsistencies to the reason for them). I expect this may seriously come to the fore during the real campaign - he may embarrass himself in a big way yet.

He has a DUI. I had one when I was 16.

I wasn't thinking purely in terms of a criminal record, but in particular of his somewhat elusive military record, sneaky avoidance of Vietnam (with Daddy's help) etc.

Ah, Rathergate. There is nothing elusive about his military record. He was in the Air National Gaurd. And he wasn't the top performer. They are similar to reserves, tho back then, when the Cold War was still in full swing, there was a slightly different paradigm than there exists today. Nonetheless, these guard units did deploy to Vietnam on occasion, but their primary role was air defense here at home.

Sneaky avoidance of Vietnam? That's a canard. You need to catch up with American liberals, the playbook has moved on. You're stuck at four years ago. Prior military service is not an issue this election - don't forget the Democrats are running two who never served against a war hero this time. Anyway, at worst, he decided that his best interests were served by joining the Gaurd so he wouldn't be drafted and have no choice where he served.

Do you have problems with anyone else who chose to avoid conscription by serving in another capacity?

For that matter, does what he did as a 20 year-old forty years ago really have any bearing on his ability to lead today?

This is where I parted with other conservatives in 2004 who liked to hack on Kerry for his shenanigans. There was, and is, plenty to complain about from his political record of the last decade without having to reach into ancient history and nit pick what he did as a snot nosed kid. A decade before that he probably didn't finish his peas.

I agree there is no doubt plenty to discuss (and plenty that has been discussed to death) on the topic of Bush, but we had wandered off the thread topic to comparing your record to that of the "sitting president" - who obviously isn't running this time. So whatever contemporary issues may be the 'in-thing' were not the point. As for war records and suitability for political office in general, I'm not greatly convinced they are greatly relevant. Military experience doesn't turn me on much at all - I would prefer to look at a person's entire resume and experience, and assess their character and ability on that basis.

Then why did you bring up his war record? You seemed to think less of him for "avoiding Vietnam."

Well I don't see that as an issue of military experience so much as as example of his character. Going out of your way to make sure you avoid something, being willing to have Daddy pull strings to make that happen, etc. Really a totally separate issue to what experience one might or might not have through a military career.

Military experience seems to me just a component of life experience - a job on the aforementioned resume - and should be regarded as such when assessing someone's suitability for another job. That's not to say that things that happen during a military career might not stand out as worthy as special achievements (for want of a better term) on the resume. For example, specific acts of special bravery in battle during a military career. But similar events can also happen during civilian life - they are independent of the military issue in my eyes.

So, its poor character to avoid going to war? Do you think able bodied men and women who could enlist, but don't, are also of poor character?

BTW, if his father helped him with anything, it was helping him with joining the military, not avoiding the military. If I were young and there were a draft going on, and I had a Yale education, I might have my druthers and do some picking and choosing about how I served rather than sit on the side and wait for my number to be drawn.

What would you have done in his place?

No, but I think there is something very dishonest about the way he went about it. To me it seems a rather different concept to what you may be used to in the USA as I live in a country without the huge military culture. Here the number of people who spend time in the military is a very small minority of the population. Talking about the number of people who choose to enlist is perhaps on a parallel with talking about those who choose to become plumbers.

To be honest I don't think I can honestly answer that without being under the real pressure of the situation. Normally I wouldn't voluntarily join the military in a million years because I have no ambition to be forced into killing people in a struggle I probably don't believe is just. I also would have a major problem existing in a hierarchy with such a rigorous authority-based structure (especially when I was much younger). There is also a secondary issue as to whether I would be accepted due to medical reasons. But your question I think is would I have been willing to manipulate the kind of job I got in the military if I could - to which I think the answer is, probably, in the manner of whether my job might be infantry or cook or clerical or whatever (because I would be of the best value as well as the best personal job satisfaction, in a job I would be best at).

But as to a secondary issue, whether I would try to avoid being drafted straight to the front line by enroling in the National Guard instead, I would like to think not. Most probably, hypothetically putting aside the medical issue for the sake of interest, I would either educate myself in how best to make sure that once in the military I got a job I was good at - which would be something other than front line soldier, though not necessarily away from the front line (the writer position in I thin it was Full metal Jacket is one example that comes to mind), or I would decide not to participate at all and become a conscientious objector. As I said, I don't think it is a question one can easily answer with full honesty without the pressure of the actual situation.

So, its ok for you not to volunteer, or to be a conscientious objector, or its ok to steer yourself into a writing job, but its not ok to join voluntarily and steer yourself into a job flying jets.

As I said, the issue to my mind is not whether or not he was selective about his personal direction within the military, but that there was a dishonesty about the way it happened.

1. During the time it occurred, the Government had made it clear National Guard units would not be called into combat. So it stinks of avoiding combat purely for avoidance sake. (That alone is fine - but if so, he should be honest about it and say that he chose it to avoid danger).
2. Apparently at that time there was a long waiting list to get into the National Guard, yet somehow, while scoring the minimum on his acceptance exam, Bush found his way to the top of the list and got in immediately. (Something stinks here obviously).
3. He also somewhat conveniently got posted to a so-called 'champagne unit' - one with very little demands on the men's time. In the same unit at the same time were the sons of Governor John Connally, Senator Lloyd Bentsen, and Senator John Tower, as well as seven members of the Dallas Cowboys. (What are the odds of this without some corruption in the system?)

Career choice and the desire to avoid danger I wouldn't begrudge anyone - dishonesty about it, and the willingness to participate in some kind of elitist corruption to achieve it, both speak strongly about character in my opinion.

This was posted on Slashdot:

McCain vs. Obama on Tech Issues

Previewing McCain and Obama on geek issues

Apparently, they forgot to tell the 8,700 they deployed to Vietnam.

Where are you getting your information?

I'm not usually one to poison the well, but I suspect your sources aren't reliable.