What Does A Vote Say About The Voter?

Iandefor · 11-18-2007

In particular, does a vote construe a voter's support for the system in which they vote?

For instance, if I vote in a US General Election, irrespective of whom I vote for, does that imply that I buy into the US government as a system?

By the way, I ask this because I've heard people mention several times that they don't vote because it "lends credence to the system." And I kind of wanted to discuss the idea.

Iandefor · 11-18-2007

I don't think it necessarily does. All a vote necessarily says about a voter is that they recognize they're in a system whose course will have a direct impact on their lives and they have an opportunity to have at least some (however small) say in that system. It doesn't necessarily imply approval or support of the system itself.

A more wordy but polarizing way of saying it, but I think one that maybe expresses this idea better, can be found in Lysander Spooner's No Treason, No. II [boldface mine]:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lysander Spooner

...in the case of individuals, their actual voting is not to be taken as proof of consent, even for the time being. On the contrary, it is to be considered that, without his consent having ever been asked, a man finds himself environed by a government that he cannot resist; a government that forces him to pay money, render service, and forego the exercise of many of his natural rights, under peril of weighty punishments. He sees, too, that other men practise this tyranny over him by the use of the ballot. He sees further that, if he will but use the ballot himself, he has some chance of relieving himself from this tyranny of others, by subjecting them to his own. In short, be finds himself, without his consent, so situated that, if he use the ballot, he may become a master; if he does not use it, he must become a slave. And he has no other alternative than these two. In self-defence, he attempts the former.

mmccarthy · 11-18-2007

In my country we get the non-voters who don't necessarily disapprove of the system but rather the candidates. The general response from them is "I don't vote because there is nobody worth voting for".

My response to this is twofold. If you don't vote then you don't have the right to complain about the actions of those politicians who are voted into power. Also if you are serious that none of them are worth voting for then find and propose a candidate who is or stand yourself.
In this country that is a feasible option. I am sick of people who don't bother to turn out to vote and then spend all their time giving out about the policies introduced by the government.

Rasczak · 11-19-2007

If you don't participate by either not voting or wasting your vote, you have no grounds for complaint anyway as far as I'm concerned.

narayan · 11-19-2007

In Australia voting is compulsory. You can opt out of the 'system' but it costs unless you have a good excuse.

mmccarthy · 11-19-2007

I can see the benefits of making it compulsory. However, voting is a right and a privilege. Something about it being compulsory strikes a wrong note with me.

Rasczak · 11-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmccarthy

I can see the benefits of making it compulsory. However, voting is a right and a privilege. Something about it being compulsory strikes a wrong note with me.

I agree. I think its perfectly fine people are refusing to vote. I wish more people would. More voters isn't necessarily a good thing, so the people dumb enough to think they're making some kind of statement about the "system" or putting it to "the man" by not voting, its just as well they aren't voting anyway.

Win win situation.

kevmartin · 11-19-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmccarthy

I can see the benefits of making it compulsory. However, voting is a right and a privilege. Something about it being compulsory strikes a wrong note with me.

It does with some people here in Australia too

But the fact is, it is not just a right and a privilege, but also legally a civil responsibility here. There aren't many duties expected of you for being an Australian, but voting is one. I guess some people complain about jury duty too - seems the same principle to me.

If you really don't want to cast a vote, you can easily cast an invalid vote.

Fully agree with earlier comments in the topic by Iandefor and mmccarthy by the way.

Rasczak · 11-19-2007

I definately disagree with making it a "duty." You end up forcing uninformed morons into casting a ballot. There's enough of them voting voluntarily already. I say look for ways to restrict who is eligible to vote in a way that allows anyone who wants to cast an informed vote can if they meet requirements, but not out of hand.

For example, I don't think individuals receiving a hand-out from the government should be allowed to vote in the U.S. At least not while we have these unconstitutional campaign finance reforms in place. If money can corrupt when its going to the politicians it sure as hell can corrupt when its coming from them too.

mmccarthy · 11-21-2007

I have to disagree Rasczak. From a female point of view, it took too long for us to get the vote. Any restrictions on who has the right to vote is a step backwards. It also opens the door to even more corruption.

The reality in this country is lower income/welfare families rarely vote. It would be interesting to see the results if they did.

11-18-2007	#1 (permalink)
Iandefor Super Moderator Join Date: May 2007 Location: The rainy dreary horrible northwest corner of the US Posts: 448	What Does A Vote Say About The Voter? In particular, does a vote construe a voter's support for the system in which they vote? For instance, if I vote in a US General Election, irrespective of whom I vote for, does that imply that I buy into the US government as a system? By the way, I ask this because I've heard people mention several times that they don't vote because it "lends credence to the system." And I kind of wanted to discuss the idea. Last edited by Iandefor : 11-18-2007 at 08:22 PM.
	Bovina Sancta! Mohandas Gandhi broke the law, too.

11-18-2007	#3 (permalink)
mmccarthy Administrator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 605	Re: What Does A Vote Say About The Voter? In my country we get the non-voters who don't necessarily disapprove of the system but rather the candidates. The general response from them is "I don't vote because there is nobody worth voting for". My response to this is twofold. If you don't vote then you don't have the right to complain about the actions of those politicians who are voted into power. Also if you are serious that none of them are worth voting for then find and propose a candidate who is or stand yourself. In this country that is a feasible option. I am sick of people who don't bother to turn out to vote and then spend all their time giving out about the policies introduced by the government.
	"Example is more powerful than precept" - Aesop Access Consultant

11-19-2007	#4 (permalink)
Rasczak Stirrer Of Shit Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,598	Re: What Does A Vote Say About The Voter? If you don't participate by either not voting or wasting your vote, you have no grounds for complaint anyway as far as I'm concerned.
	Eric "For whoever habitually suppresses the truth in the interests of tact will produce a deformity from the womb of his thought." -Sir Basil H. Liddel-Hart http://self-composed.com

11-19-2007	#5 (permalink)
narayan Au revoir Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 271	Re: What Does A Vote Say About The Voter? In Australia voting is compulsory. You can opt out of the 'system' but it costs unless you have a good excuse.
narayan Au revoir Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 271	Do You Do It or Does It Do You?

11-19-2007	#6 (permalink)
mmccarthy Administrator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 605	Re: What Does A Vote Say About The Voter? I can see the benefits of making it compulsory. However, voting is a right and a privilege. Something about it being compulsory strikes a wrong note with me.
	"Example is more powerful than precept" - Aesop Access Consultant

11-19-2007	#9 (permalink)
Rasczak Stirrer Of Shit Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,598	Re: What Does A Vote Say About The Voter? I definately disagree with making it a "duty." You end up forcing uninformed morons into casting a ballot. There's enough of them voting voluntarily already. I say look for ways to restrict who is eligible to vote in a way that allows anyone who wants to cast an informed vote can if they meet requirements, but not out of hand. For example, I don't think individuals receiving a hand-out from the government should be allowed to vote in the U.S. At least not while we have these unconstitutional campaign finance reforms in place. If money can corrupt when its going to the politicians it sure as hell can corrupt when its coming from them too.
	Eric "For whoever habitually suppresses the truth in the interests of tact will produce a deformity from the womb of his thought." -Sir Basil H. Liddel-Hart http://self-composed.com

11-21-2007	#10 (permalink)
mmccarthy Administrator Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 605	Re: What Does A Vote Say About The Voter? I have to disagree Rasczak. From a female point of view, it took too long for us to get the vote. Any restrictions on who has the right to vote is a step backwards. It also opens the door to even more corruption. The reality in this country is lower income/welfare families rarely vote. It would be interesting to see the results if they did.
	"Example is more powerful than precept" - Aesop Access Consultant