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Old 10-26-2007   #41 (permalink)
Rasczak
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Default Re: What's Communism?

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True, too many people joining a certain type of profession and not enough joining others wouldn't work. At the very least it would require some kind of quota system which would inevitably lead back to the class system they say they are trying to get away from.

In all honesty I'm not bashing communism as I think its a laudable ideal. I just don't think its very practical.
It works great in the imagination, no where else.
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"For whoever habitually suppresses the truth in the interests of tact will produce a deformity from the womb of his thought." -Sir Basil H. Liddel-Hart
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."—Ronald Reagan

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Old 10-26-2007   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

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In all honesty I'm not bashing communism as I think its a laudable ideal. I just don't think its very practical.
Isn't open source software largely based on a communistic/socialist ideology?

Of course every time this is pointed out, some freedom fighter will vigorously deny any relation between Linux and communism, asserting that OSS is all about Freedom (much the same way Larry Craig denies that he's gay).

The fact is though, Richard Stallman, author of the gnu software license, is very much a socialist. He designed the license to infect everything it touched.
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Old 10-26-2007   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

I agree I think that there are always certain areas where these kind of ideals work well. I don't think this proves that the concept as a lifestyle would work though.

"Example is more powerful than precept" - Aesop


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Old 10-26-2007   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

That's probably true. What's interesting to think about though, is as technology advances, and machines do the work of people, what will humans do with their time? The next several hundred years are going to be a wide open, uncharted territory in human history.
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Old 10-26-2007   #45 (permalink)
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Yes but they've been threatening that for the last 20 years and it hasn't happened yet. I remember being told everyone would be working a 3 day week and we would have to worry about leisure time. Truthfully people are in general working longer hours.

I know in Ireland we have had to import workers from abroad to keep our economy growing. I think the type of jobs change as we use machines more and more but I think we also create new jobs.

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Old 10-26-2007   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

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Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg View Post
Isn't open source software largely based on a communistic/socialist ideology?

Of course every time this is pointed out, some freedom fighter will vigorously deny any relation between Linux and communism, asserting that OSS is all about Freedom (much the same way Larry Craig denies that he's gay).

The fact is though, Richard Stallman, author of the gnu software license, is very much a socialist. He designed the license to infect everything it touched.
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Although there may be superficial elements that might appear to resemble some things found in communist states, the whole is not a model of communism. In fact, the political and economic biases tend to be quite varied among the members of the Open Source world. It is not unusual to hear these various biases occasionally mentioned during electronic discussions. But these political slants are entirely secondary in Open Source. They are treated by the community the same way the corporate world treats discussions of hobbies: Discussion of them is fine as long as it does not get in the way of getting the job done, but they have no bearing on the task at hand.

Rather than exemplifying some new form of communism, the Open Source world is a model based on the scientific community. Instead of embodying some political or economic ideal, the Open Source community is the result of some basic philosophy and simple pragmatism applied to the task at hand. The focus is not on making others think and act like the geeks; rather, it is on allowing geeks to produce what the world needs.
InformIT: Community, Not Communism > Size Really Does Matter

The companies and individuals making their living off of open source software would like to have a word with you.
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Old 10-26-2007   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

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That's probably true. What's interesting to think about though, is as technology advances, and machines do the work of people, what will humans do with their time? The next several hundred years are going to be a wide open, uncharted territory in human history.

That's been true of the next several hundred years throughout human history.

Platitudes.
Eric
"For whoever habitually suppresses the truth in the interests of tact will produce a deformity from the womb of his thought." -Sir Basil H. Liddel-Hart
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."—Ronald Reagan

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Old 10-26-2007   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

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That's been true of the next several hundred years throughout human history.

Platitudes.
Then I suppose you'd agree that arguments along the lines "it's never been done, therefore it can't be done" are pretty weak in general. You know, one of your arguments.

Otherwise, I don't recall the last age when people peered into their own DNA and built machines that surpassed human intelligence. If and when humans build machines that build and service other machines, there will be a dramatic shift in social dynamics. What human chore will be left, aside from writing software?
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Old 10-26-2007   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

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Then I suppose you'd agree that arguments along the lines "it's never been done, therefore it can't be done" are pretty weak in general. You know, one of your arguments.

Otherwise, I don't recall the last age when people peered into their own DNA and built machines that surpassed human intelligence. If and when humans build machines that build and service other machines, there will be a dramatic shift in social dynamics. What human chore will be left, aside from writing software?
I'm not going to gaze into your crystal ball with you threre Nastrodamus. Yeah, we'll most likely continue to see technological improvements unless communism somehow sweeps the whole world. But you don't need to start worrying about Terminator just yet.

You put words in my mouth - while its true communism has never worked, there is a reason it has never worked. Rather than try to build straw men that you wouldn't be able to knock down anyway, how about trying to tackle MY points above?

I said this earlier in the thread, and you are confirming it now. You guys aren't capable of telling us how it'd work and support your view, you just try to defang opposing view points.
Eric
"For whoever habitually suppresses the truth in the interests of tact will produce a deformity from the womb of his thought." -Sir Basil H. Liddel-Hart
"How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."—Ronald Reagan

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Old 10-26-2007   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

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Rather than try to build straw men that you wouldn't be able to knock down anyway, how about trying to tackle MY points above?
On your view, OSS theoretically shouldn't exist. What's the incentive? If there was no pay, why should a person spend years understanding the linux kernel when they could play video games and look at internet porn instead? The level of education required is on par with medicine, law, or architecture.
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Old 10-26-2007   #51 (permalink)
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I think you are simplifying something that I find almost unique to the developer community. Look at the numerous help forums for developers that are run by experts who volunteer their time to impart their knowledge to others. Whether the motivation is ego, showing off or a genuine desire to help doesn't matter. This kind of behaviour is common in the developer community maybe because it lends itself to this.

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Old 10-26-2007   #52 (permalink)
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People cannot ever be "truly equal", because, well, people are not equal. Some are superior and some are inferior, in many different ways. We are an extremely diverse species.
Oh my, I have so many problems with this statement I barely know where to begin. A statement like this is born out of subjective perceptions of what it means to be superior over another human being. Deep within, when you peel back the layers of perception and experience, we are all equal peaceful beings.

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Humans would need to de-evolvle a long long way for communism to "work."
It's interesting that many indigenous cultures prospered and thrived for tens of thousands of years on principles that are true to the ideal of communism only to be destroyed by colonialism and democracy. I don't think we'd have to de-evolve that far at all for true communism to make a better world.
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Old 10-26-2007   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's Communism?

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Their answer is something like "job satisfaction." "Some people are just happy being good at something." What about the guy who has the smarts and what it takes to be a doctor, and might even like being a doctor too, but he also likes to play the flute - so instead of being a doctor, he decides to be a musician by profession being it pays the same as a doctor anyway and its just as fun for him. And the communist state will make sure he's trained to play a flute because that's what he wants to do right?

Or will the communist state, instead of the individual, have to pick what jobs people get to make sure it gets "from each according to their ability?
As I said, I'm no expert, but was just giving my interpretation. I certainly don't have a 'correct' answer to this issue. But I also don't think that communism implies total individual freedom to do whatever one wants and be rewarded for it by the State - clearly that is impractical. Perhaps some kind of system where one has to prove one's ability in one's chosen field (relative to others who choose that field)? So your flautist can play the flute for a living just so long as he's damn good at it. Once again I think there is not necessarily only two black/white options (i.e. everyone can choose whatever they feel like for a job, or the State chooses everyone's vocations for them).
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