Ya he really showed me that I was wrong about capitalism with the three sentence post.

Actually, it only took two. The other two sentences he was just putting you in your place.

Yes.

Hopefully not, but not because we will be out of oil. Oil is a finite resource, in the general sense, but we're in no danger of running out in my lifetime or yours.

Peak oil is a flawed theory that doesn't take into account advances in technology or unconventional sources of oil. It is also a theory that is based on the idea of oil being a "fossil fuel", which is most probably false.

The oil industry has been claiming that they'll run out of it since they started selling the stuff. It's a marketing technique.

Reason Magazine - Peak Oil Panic

The false assumptions were that we actually want Iraq to produce oil, that we must go to war to procure oil, and that the price of oil is the result of natural market pressures.

My point was that since politicians and the oil industry are colluding, the price has nothing to do with the market conditions. They are able to move the price up or down through any number of actions or inactions at their disposal.

They want a higher price, we pay a higher price, regardless of supply or production. In a free market, high prices would stimulate higher produciton, which would in turn bring prices back down. None of that is occuring, because the oil market is in the hands of a state-sanctioned cartel.

How you construe any of that to be in support of the current administration or the occupation of Iraq, I don't know.

You have a very warped sense of reality don't you?

No, nothing warped about it at all.

Given the amazing amount of intellectual integrity you've taken upon yourself to claim, I'm surprised you didn't see any problem with Edward's statements.

Someone blames "liberals" for everything, and it goes unchallenged; someone blames capitalists, and a formal proof is expected.

Karl's remarks are no less thoughtful or less respectful than the level of dialog in the rest of the thread. Given the lack of respect he was shown, I don't see how the challenge even warranted a response on his part.

Personally, I like the idea of debate ... although you give debate a bad name ... much in the same way utabintarbo gave philosophy a bad name. If there is no respect, it's not a debate. Just a combative pissing contest.

FWIW, I generally agree with Karl.

Edward's comments aren't going unchalleged. Didn't you just challenge them? Didn't Karl challenge them indirectly?

I ignored them. I'm not interested in blaming the "Left" or "Right". There is no real difference between the two. They are almost all statists, so what difference does it make which statist dogma they justify it with? If I slap you in the face, is it important which hand I used?

So, you agree that capitalism is at fault?

Everyone, take one step forward if you understand what capitalism is. Not so fast, yaaarrrgg.

You need pricing of goods and services to be determined through the operation of a market economy for it to be considered a capitalist market. I can keep pointing out how and why that is not happening, if you wish.

How dare you infringe on oil-sellers freedom! They can offer their oil at any prize they want to. And they should be able to say whatever they want too too. And dont say they should not be allowed to create cartels. Who is going to enforce that? Must be an oligargy!
\sarcasm
(Hehe, if i were to see it as people exercising their rights in pure capitalism, it would be capitalisms fault.)

I doubt peak oil is all imaginary. The amount of oil will just fall more slowly, not as drastic as alarmists claim. And if it is not fossil, what the hell is it then? Are you saying coal is not fossil too?

KarlMarx... Still no arguments why capitalism did it? Do you even have them?
@Rasczak, i noticed that KarlMarx was just insulting LordFu, btw LordFu actually had not given any arguments before post #15 either.

Surely you aren't going to argue that there exists "pure" capitalism in America. If that was the case, I would be free to go start my own oil company and compete. I am not. At best, we are a mixed economy. At worst, it's a planned economy.

Abiogenic petroleum origin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd say, as a theory, it is at least equal in merit to the theory that oil comes from fossils.

I agree that this is not exactly capitalism. Just was too seductive
But if it were a capitalism, the bunch of people owning the oil wells could still make a cartel. You trust that they wont: "nah someone will bunkle for the money.", or do you think they should somehow be forced to supply?

Are there actually laws prohibiting the private exploration of oil? My grandmother has an oil well (well ... maybe 'had' ... might be dry now).

I'm not in favor of making collusion, price fixing, and other anti-competitive practices legal, no. I do think that a free market strongly discourages such behavior, but I think it's legitimate of government to step in when there is evidence of such behavior.

There aren't laws directly preventing it, no, but it isn't exactly feasible, either. Firstly, I'd have to buy the rights to a untapped oil source. Since vast majority of those are owned by the state, I'd need to convince them to give me permission or sell me the land. Then, if I managed to get permission to pump it out of the ground, something that is increasingly difficult to do, I'd have no place to refine it into a marketable product, since I would be allowed to build a refinery, forcing me right into the hands of the cartel.

Of course, since the Iraq war started, I've eared that administration saying many reasons to justify the occupation of Iraq.

At least my conclusions are directly related with the political, strategic and economic reality (no propaganda here, just the facts).

Today: BBC News - Oil price at record $100 a barrel

Why do they charge so much for 42 gallons of oil?

Because they can.....

It's like 109 now.



Gasoline (and crude oil) is a very inelastic commodity. This is one of those places where capitalism breaks down. The problem is that we are technologically unable to pump enough oil out of the ground. We've already discovered most of the good stuff so new oil fields are harder to find.

Just came from the site with this weeks prices per barrel with petroleum and crude oil, no change. We have been existing in a recession for about 4 months now, eggs, milk and other grocer products through the roof. I can still hear my dads voice say...everything keeps going up but my paycheck, and now my existence living in the ripple affect..when the economy is booming it sure is short lived. $3.09 here in Missouri for 1 gallon of gas, last summer it peaked at $3.50, funny you learn to appreciate staying home alot more.

Sherri

Here is Australia it is heading towards $1.50 per litre (which is maybe $6.50 per gallon) - fortunately for me I drive very little these days - I can put $20 in the tank and have it last me some 4 months.

Hey Kevin, forgive my ignornance here, I know nothing of the Australian continent, I talk with a girlfriend on line from there only. Well you must not travel far at all...I guess you take a bus? I dont have to travel far as I am near the mainstream, that is nice. I cant imagine $6.50 a gallon here, but I guess its possible,,,could happen sooner than we think. Wow $6.50..I feel an anxiety attack coming on...

Worse case scenario, we have metro-link, but I would need to take a bus to get to it, first.. walk to a place where the bus can pick you up...YIKES,,ya its looking a bit grim..

Sherri

Actually, simpler than that - I don't travel lol. I'm fortunate enough to be able to work from home - money is (much) less, and hours are LONG, but nothing beats it for freedom. I only travel once a week to the center of town to the shops for groceries and other more occasional needs, generally once a week and the shops are not far - 5 minutes drive most weeks. Once a year I go to the city on Christmas day, which costs more like $50 in fuel. Also I have a 4 cylinder car which cuts down the costs even more.