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Old 10-01-2007   #1 (permalink)
gilmorem
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Default Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

This issue concerns me greatly. It has the potential to involve conflict with India, China and Russia on one side with the Western Nations on the other.

Although these countries are not backing the atrocities being committed in Burma they are not likely to be very happy if the western countries intervene.

Some current stories about what is happening.

Satellite photos may prove abuses in Myanmar, researchers say

Mystery surrounds U.N. envoy in Myanmar

Burmese monks 'to be sent away'

Monks missing as bustle returns

There are many more stories.
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Old 10-01-2007   #2 (permalink)
gilmorem
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

A couple of other relevant stories

Groups Struggle to Tally Myanmar's Dead

Internet blackout in Myanmar stalls citizen reporting
As I was walking up the stair I met a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today. I wish, I wish he'd stay away. (Hughes Mearns)
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Old 10-01-2007   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

I've been following this on the news. The whole situation is terrible. I hope those monks haven't been killed as the rumors are saying.

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Old 10-01-2007   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

This is really sad.
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Old 10-01-2007   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

Government out of control, as usual. Where's the U.N.? They're useless.
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Old 10-01-2007   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

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Government out of control, as usual. Where's the U.N.? They're useless.
They say it's internal affairs and claim they have no right to intervene. Twats.
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Old 10-01-2007   #7 (permalink)
mmccarthy
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

Intervening is difficult as India and China are the bordering nations and won't stand for western interference.

"Example is more powerful than precept" - Aesop


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Old 10-01-2007   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

What are the two sides fighting/protesting about? I haven't been following this story very closely, and its hard to find anything on the underlying reason for the conflict. Why do journalists write stories like this? It's like when they say "a truck ran over three children today in a crowded market" as if the truck was just out tooling around with no driver on its own accord. All you basically get out of the coverage of this is "military are being mean to protestors and monks" without a lot of details about what is actually fueling the conflict.
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Old 10-01-2007   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

Its a complicated issue but the main core of it are a really bad economy and an overturned general election.

This is a quote from a Seattle Times Article.

Quote:
The last election, in 1990, was won overwhelmingly by Aung San Suu Kyi and her National League of Democracy. But the junta annulled the results, saying the country first needed a new constitution.
This is a general history of the politics of Myanmar from wikipedia.

This particular series of protests were sparked by this

Myanmar's petrol price hike stops buses in Yangon - Summary


Its my understanding that this response to protests back in August prompted the monks to get involved in the hope of protecting the protesters which unfortunately seems to have backfired.

13 activists arrested for protesting against hike in petrol costs

However, this is obviously a very complicated political situation and I'm probably in danger of oversimplifying it.

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Old 10-02-2007   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasczak View Post
What are the two sides fighting/protesting about? I haven't been following this story very closely, and its hard to find anything on the underlying reason for the conflict. Why do journalists write stories like this? It's like when they say "a truck ran over three children today in a crowded market" as if the truck was just out tooling around with no driver on its own accord. All you basically get out of the coverage of this is "military are being mean to protestors and monks" without a lot of details about what is actually fueling the conflict.
Why did you post in this thread if you don't know anything about the topic?
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Old 10-02-2007   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

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Originally Posted by latecomer View Post
Why did you post in this thread if you don't know anything about the topic?
I had a question and a rant.
Eric
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Old 10-04-2007   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

I very much admire the peacefull protest. It sucks that it wont work, the generals are just too ruthless. I am afraid that peacefull revolution by the people only worked for Ghandi, because the English were confronted by the 'ungentlemanly' nature of the occupation of India. These generals dont value this notion.

I think we should intervene. I guess the larger neighbouring do not like it, but we will have to take that rich. (Perhaps the smaller ones are more friendly.) I bet we can just scare most of the regime off, offering them exile. Also, this time, the local culture should be taken into account. (Learn from Iraq) Ethnic tensions might well be much lower then in Iraq, but lets not take chances. For instance I read that there exiled opposition, many of those would have valueable knowledge on how a new government in the country could work. (Unseating the current government is less then half the work.)
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Old 10-04-2007   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

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I think we should intervene.
Who is "we?" What gives your country the right to invade a sovereign country. Have they broken any cease fire agreements? UN resolutions? What is your exit strategy?
Eric
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Old 10-04-2007   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

All valid points Rasczak.

Also the biggest problem is China. If they feel any 'invasion' infringes on their territory we could find ourselves in the Middle of World War III. I'm not saying we shouldn't do something but its a very fragile and delicate situation. Going in without consideration of all the issues would do more harm than good.

A lot of people feel that peaceful opposition may be effective. I got this by email from a friend a couple of days ago. Careful if you are posting it anywhere though as they are against spamming of any kind.

Stand with the Burmese Protesters

Essentially its a petition to the president of China asking him to intervene. He's really the only one with the power to do so without causing conflict.

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Old 10-04-2007   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

Don't forget China are currently trying to change their image with the rest of the world. The Olympic games are coming up and thats a lot of money for them. Its actually a very effective time to put public pressure on them.

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Old 10-04-2007   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

The only justificatoin for intervening is if we can catch Osama Bin Laden there or we know they have WMDs they're going to use on us. To me it just looks like innocent people being oppressed and killed - none of our business.
Eric
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Old 10-04-2007   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasczak View Post
The only justificatoin for intervening is if we can catch Osama Bin Laden there or we know they have WMDs they're going to use on us. To me it just looks like innocent people being oppressed and killed - none of our business.

Errr, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan hat WMDs and Bin Laden is probably sitting in some cave behind the Pakistani border.

So Myanmar qualifies 100%:

No WMDs: check!
No Bin Laden: check!
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Old 10-04-2007   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

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Errr, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan hat WMDs and Bin Laden is probably sitting in some cave behind the Pakistani border.

So Myanmar qualifies 100%:

No WMDs: check!
No Bin Laden: check!
I see you haven't studied the liberal articles of faith sufficiently.
Eric
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Old 10-04-2007   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

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I see you haven't studied the liberal articles of faith sufficiently.
huh?
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Old 10-05-2007   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Burma (Myanmar) Atrocities

I agree that it would need much more consideration, but i still think help should be offered. It could well be a peacefull revolution is the better option to try. Perhaps i am just a bit frustrated that the whole thing seems to be in vane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasczak
Who is "we?" What gives your country the right to invade a sovereign country. Have they broken any cease fire agreements? UN resolutions? What is your exit strategy?
I am not quite sure who is 'we'.. people symphasizing with the Burmeze? I think the people of Burma have given a pretty strong signal on how they feel about the situation.
I guess the UN would stop us from interfering. On the other hand, the UN did not stop the Iraq war, so that could make the UN an organization that prevent missions to improve the world and lets through missions to earn a buck? (Just make something up, or use some rule that many countries break, and make it seem more important then it is.)
Anyway, considering China, it probably is not a good idea to intervene.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasczak
The only justificatoin for intervening is if we can catch Osama Bin Laden there or we know they have WMDs they're going to use on us.
So the fact that one person is in a country gives you(edit: the US, a country) the right to invade that country?? wtf!

Last edited by Jasper84 : 10-05-2007 at 09:09 PM.
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