Professor Charged Under Patriot Act

LordFu · 09-27-2007

Art or Bioterrorism: Who Cares? - 10 Zen Monkeys

Quote:

The FBI detained and questioned Kurtz for 22 hours. His house — and his wife's body — were confiscated. Kurtz' entire street was quarantined while agents from numerous agencies, including Homeland Security and the Department of Defense, descended on his home in hazmat suits. Everything was confiscated – computers, books on bioweaponry, garbage, posters with "suspicious" Arabic lettering on them… everything.

After about two days, the authorities had tested the biological materials and declared that no toxic material had been found. On May 17, Kurtz was allowed to return to his home.

Whoops!

So did the authorities apologize to the grieving professor before busying themselves with pursuing real crimes and threats? Not on your life!

Despite the Public Health Commissioner's conclusions about the safety of Kurtz's materials, and despite the FBI's own field and laboratory tests showing they weren't harmful to people or the environment, the Justice Department still sought charges under the U.S. Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, as expanded by the USA PATRIOT Act — Prohibitions With Respect to Biological Weapons.

A federal grand jury rejected the charges, but instead handed down indictments with two counts each for "mail fraud" and "wire fraud." According to the CAE, the charges "concern technicalities" about how Kurtz obtained "$256 worth of harmless bacteria for one of CAE's art projects." (Robert Ferrell, former head of the Department of Genetics at the University of Pittsburgh's School of Public Health, and a collaborator on several of CAE’s projects, now facing charges along with Kurtz) In this interview, Kurtz characterizes the charges even more bluntly. "The Department of Justice can drop a major felony on someone for filling out a warranty card incorrectly and mailing it."

The man's wife just died, and he's immediately put through this ordeal. Shame.

wherespapa · 09-27-2007

Give me a break, would you!!! What, are you some sort of bleeding heart liberal? This is how America stays protected. Alright, his wife died and I'm sorry about that, but why take a chance on the rest of us dying?

LordFu · 09-27-2007

I disagree with you, so I must be a liberal. Impeccable logic there.

/FAIL

Last I checked, it was fairly common for University Professors to have science equipment. To go to these lengths to charge him with an admitted legal technicality during a time when he's mourning the loss of his wife is absolutely shamefull.

wherespapa · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFu

I disagree with you, so I must be a liberal. Impeccable logic there.

/FAIL

Last I checked, it was fairly common for University Professors to have science equipment. To go to these lengths to charge him with an admitted legal technicality during a time when he's mourning the loss of his wife is absolutely shamefull.

Are we talking about logic or homeland security? This is a new day and age, deal with it.

LordFu · 09-27-2007

Cue the "post 9/11 world" trump card, eh?

[sarcasm]Yes, the terrorist are trying to overcome us with terror, so let's be fearfull of everything to defeat the terrorists. It makes perfect sense.[/sarcasm]

wherespapa · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFu

Cue the "post 9/11 world" trump card, eh?

[sarcasm]Yes, the terrorist are trying to overcome us with terror, so let's be fearfull of everything to defeat the terrorists. It makes perfect sense.[/sarcasm]

Why are you bringing up fear? This is about security. If I have a key less entry on my car, does that mean I am scared? The government is just doing their job of protecting us. So what if it's a little inconvenient.

Rasczak · 09-27-2007

They don't usually have illegally-obtained biologic microbes.

LordFu · 09-27-2007

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

LordFu · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasczak

They don't usually have illegally-obtained biologic microbes.

They weren't illegally obtained. They were shipped improperly, and that is the "crime" he's charged with.

wherespapa · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFu

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin

Franklin is dead and so are his ideals. If he were alive, he would do just as George Bush is doing.

LordFu · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by wherespapa

Franklin is dead and so are his ideals. If he were alive, he would do just as George Bush is doing.

Wow, that's the most idiotic thing I've heard today. You should win a prize for that, or something.

Rasczak · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFu

They weren't illegally obtained. They were shipped improperly, and that is the "crime" he's charged with.

Ok - my information is wrong. Wikipedia:

Quote:

...he faces 20 years in jail for fraudulently obtaining biological microbes.

LordFu · 09-27-2007

$256 worth of harmless bacteria. He failed to "dot an i" or "cross a t" on the paper work. It certainly doesn't warrant his treatment or a felony charge.

wherespapa · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFu

$256 worth of harmless bacteria. He failed to "dot an i" or "cross a t" on the paper work. It certainly doesn't warrant his treatment or a felony charge.

Are you going to help him out with his legal bills, or is all this just for fun?

LordFu · 09-27-2007

I wasn't aware he was soliciting donations.

wherespapa · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFu

I wasn't aware he was soliciting donations.

Just send it and he will accept it cuz his wife just died, didn't she? He deserves to be relieved of the stress of having to pay for his legal defense. Put your money where your mouth is as they say, or are you just being liberal again?

LordFu · 09-27-2007

So, I need to send unrequested money to a victim of over-eager law enforcement to not be a liberal?

/FAIL

wherespapa · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFu

So, I need to send unrequested money to a victim of over-eager law enforcement to not be a liberal?

/FAIL

Whatever, dude. this is getting boring already.

LordFu · 09-27-2007

Feel free to remove yourself from the gene pool.

wherespapa · 09-27-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordFu

Feel free to remove yourself from the gene pool.

Are you telling me to leave? You can't take different opinions? Typically liberal.

09-27-2007	#2 (permalink)
wherespapa Not Your Typical Man if God Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 538	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act Give me a break, would you!!! What, are you some sort of bleeding heart liberal? This is how America stays protected. Alright, his wife died and I'm sorry about that, but why take a chance on the rest of us dying?

09-27-2007	#3 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act I disagree with you, so I must be a liberal. Impeccable logic there. /FAIL Last I checked, it was fairly common for University Professors to have science equipment. To go to these lengths to charge him with an admitted legal technicality during a time when he's mourning the loss of his wife is absolutely shamefull.
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.

09-27-2007	#5 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act Cue the "post 9/11 world" trump card, eh? [sarcasm]Yes, the terrorist are trying to overcome us with terror, so let's be fearfull of everything to defeat the terrorists. It makes perfect sense.[/sarcasm]
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.

09-27-2007	#7 (permalink)
Rasczak Stirrer Of Shit Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,520	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act They don't usually have illegally-obtained biologic microbes.
	Eric "For whoever habitually suppresses the truth in the interests of tact will produce a deformity from the womb of his thought." -Sir Basil H. Liddel-Hart http://self-composed.com

09-27-2007	#8 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.

09-27-2007	#13 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act $256 worth of harmless bacteria. He failed to "dot an i" or "cross a t" on the paper work. It certainly doesn't warrant his treatment or a felony charge.
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.

09-27-2007	#15 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act I wasn't aware he was soliciting donations.
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.

09-27-2007	#17 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act So, I need to send unrequested money to a victim of over-eager law enforcement to not be a liberal? /FAIL
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.

09-27-2007	#19 (permalink)
LordFu I see the Fnords. Join Date: May 2007 Location: Columbia, MO Posts: 830	Re: Professor Charged Under Patriot Act Feel free to remove yourself from the gene pool.
	For just an instant, have a glimpse, a vision, of life through my eyes. It is a staggeringly joyous perspective, a view of how each person's choices can make their own life better. It is a vision of the possible, of how things can and should be.