The difference we have in perspective is interesting. From my view, this is a child. You may see more of a maternal figure. It's easier to imagine sexual thoughts with people equal to or above ones age as opposed to being so much younger than you.




Happens often. I think what I will do in the future is see a 'rasczak/bigdave' in all his posts so you don't need to keep telling us that he is speaking for you.

BTW- what is your physical ailment?

I think you spelled Obama wrong.

Earlier, it sounded like you thought this video was objectifying women in general, but now it sounds like you think it would be okay if she were older? Sure, she's young, but I'd put her in her twenties, which makes her an adult. Besides, the video wouldn't be effective if she weren't so hot.

Personally, I'm pretty anti-feminist (yes, Rasczak, despite my liberalness), and I don't see this video as insulting in the least. If women are supposed to be equal, then why do so many of them think that they need to be treated specially? If I put on a bikini and prance around, I expect that guys are going to stare at me; I'm not going to bitch about feeling objectified.

oops, yep i did.

/me corrects

I do think it is demaning to women in general. No matter what age, a person, whether they be male or female is capable of not understanding the message they are projecting. My post was directed at a young person and I was relating to what I thought was/is his meaning.

Men have images of women which creates a sexual appetite, or it may be the other way around.

Perhaps you should define that more clearly for me to fully understand what you mean by it. That is your choice as it is this girls choice. I would not begrudge you that. What I am talking about is the reinforced message that because of this, a woman can not handle important matters of politics and business.

I am speaking strickly from my personal view and opinion. I am a man, 51 years of age, married once with 5 adult children. Being a male at my age, I understand what younger men generally experience sexually and emotionally and that is the perspective I spoke from.

Ah, okay, that makes sense then, sorry for the misunderstanding.

I guess I just feel that if women really do want to be treated as equals, then they shouldn't demand different treatment. I'm in a pretty male-dominated field, but I have never felt that by being female I am somehow being discriminated against. The various organizations like WiSE (Women in Science and Engineering) seem to give off the message that if women are to succeed, then they must need some kind of mentoring and peer support. That just seems to be perpetuating the viewpoint that women are somehow inferior. Similarly, when employers are forced to higher a certain proportion of women, that doesn't seem right to me. The person who is best suited to the job should get the job. I don't want to succeed in this world simply because there are measures to ensure that women can succeed; I want to succeed because I am competent.

No problem!



I would love to agree with everything you have written here. I think most of the mentoring systems in business' are there for easy intro into the mostly male dominated environment. Unfortunately, most men, even at my age cannot seperate people from sexual objects. It's a fact, no matter what some want to say. My 18 year old daughter cannot walk across the street to the store without cat calls coming from cars passing by, and many of them are by men my age and older - and she has been enduring this since she was 14 years old. I'm sur you know what I'm talking about.

You will succeed based on your performance, unfortunately, part of the performance you unfairly have to give is getting through this necessary fact that you are discriminated against. So you have to endure the fact that the playing field has to be manipulated for you to compete fairly. BTW-the playing field has to be manipulated back to being an equal playing field because it has been groomed for mens use only over time.

All that said, it is better today in many cases than it was when I was younger. So things are moving in the proper direction.

Bam! Right out of nowhere and completely unrelated in anyway to the dialogue we had going, which you left hanging. You had to change the subject to me again. Pathetically typical.

Yeah, she's probably half my age - at the very least. And my age is well enough over twice that of a legal adult, so what is your point? She has a great looking body - she is thin, has a nice, flat tummy, everything is aesthetically pleasing and nicely shaped in my mind - that doesn't make her more or less valuable as a person, she is just attractive.

What do your children have to do with this? And how is it you see me now? Lately you've been calling me a bully (but you said you'd moved on) what is it today?

This is what I mean RJ - you love jumping in any thread and making it about me. For whatever reason, you didn't like what I had to say, the way our perfectly peaceful conversation had been going, but couldn't explain why, so you're attacking me in your usual passive aggressive way. Par for the course.

Didn't mean to make the discussion about you. As I had said earlier, I don't care why she chose to make the video. All I did was re-start the dialogue from another perspective. Don't take it as a personal attack, instead explain as you did. I am not saying your wrong for what you think (she's a hottie), I am merely pointing out that I don't see her that way. I find, as I get older, those kind of appealing physical attributes are meaningless. Like I have said before, I probably think as I do because I have 4 grown daughters.

Anyway, sorry you think I am out for you, I'm really not. I was simply being blunt. I am trying to do it more your way. BTW-I reject this passive-agressive stuff.

Look, in my mind (and it may be a strange mind to you and others, but it is the one I'm stuck with), words belong to the person saying or writing them, so naturally, I apply them to that person and consider them an extension of who they are. That is really all there is to it. I don't believe a person can seperate themselves from their words. When you say she is a hottie, I question what that means. I may be too direct in how I do that, but I am being intellectually honest.

Damn it, come on guys. Don't hijack another thread with this bullshit.

+1.

Actually, I owe an apology to RJ. I just realized I had completely misread his post - I somehow thought he said "that's why I see you the way I do." He said, "that's why I see it the way I do."

Consider my last post retracted.

Mea culpa.

Thank you, accepted with pleasure. And I apologize to you for any and all offenses made by me toward you up to this point.

I skipped over this post for some reason. In response to rasczak's questions on whether or not I find this as insulting to females as the hillary video - yes I do. Perhaps had it been done with less of a sexual tone to it I would not.

Sorry I did not understand the question, rasczak.

i prefer this one : YouTube - Hillary Clinton's New Theme Song Contest

Brilliant! This is the "debating like real men" stuff you were talking about before, RJ.



Exactly - we're speaking from different perspectives. To you, this will appear to be almost pedophilia, but from my perspective it's fine. Age of sexual consent in the UK is 16; she's certainly over 16, so it would be perfectly legal too.

Rasczak and myself have very similar political (and social, it appears) standings. Our posts are going to appear very similar.

However, just look above. We can get along. Let's try to keep it that way.

I'd be more than happy to discuss this via PM. There are several long stories involved, and that would drag this thread off-topic further. There's also a very rare condition involved (which legally classifies me as being disabled), and I'd prefer to leave something which is potentially personally-identifying in private.

Fine with me, Dave, and as long as we both will be polite and respectful to everyone on this board, regardless of political view, you have my apology as well if you need one to do that.

BTW- I would demand the same from any person here. And I would defend you or rasczak for those rights too.