I wholeheartedly agree, nationalism and patriotism is a foolish pride. Not that you should not defend your country, but that is because potential occupiers are probably worse rulers. They do not have the same know-how to run the particular country, and probably have malicious motives anyway.
I live in the Netherlands, but i was talking about nationalism in general.

i agree

"patriotism, the believe that your country is better because you were born there" (something like that, some important person)

I am devoted to the ideas of liberty and freedom. That is why I fly the Gadsden flag alongside the American flag. I am not a nationalist, and I do not defend every move that my country's office-holders make.



My kind of loyalty was loyalty to one's country, not to its institutions or its office-holders.
-Mark Twain

In your own words, pwill, what is liberty and freedom?

bit off-topic:

last time I saw national flags was while the football wc2006.

People running around with national flags would be called weird or maybe even nazi.

You see people with flags of the GDR or the Soviet Union on their cloths but very, very,very, very rarely with the flag of the FRG.

I think that liberty and freedom is an illusion placed upon us by people in control who ultimately decide what happens to us.
Seriously, how much freedom can a person have when he or she is not in control of the events which take place around them? Sure I have freedom to a degree, I am in control of what I can do with my life, but there will always be someone else to tell me where I have to stop, or to force me to stop. I’m trying to get a student loan worked out, and the government is just making the whole process a pain in the rear quadrant. They decide if I qualify or not, no matter what I do. If a government wanted to stop a rebellion from ever happening, all they would have to do is make their citizens happy, or make them believe that their way of life is better than that of others so that they are too scared to attempt change. How else are dictators remaining in power? Through the use of propagandist nationalistic brainwashing. IF the government wanted to, they could find me, throw me in jail, and there is nothing I could do about it. That is not freedom.

Liberty is my right to do anything I want to, as long as it does not interfere with anyone else's right to do whatever they want. You know, the ideas that this country was founded on.

No, it isn't. That is tyranny. You need to fight for your rights. As Jefferson once said, "A little rebellion now and then is a good thing."

Do you allow any other persons to just walk into your home anytime they want to?

No, because that interferes with the 4th Amendment, the "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects"

But isn't running around with the governments flags and patriotism in favour of the system?

Why would people start a revolution if they think their country is superior and in addition even proud of it?

being blinded by patritism is the first step in losing your rights and liberties.

I am a patriot. I also believe that my country is superior in many aspects to many other countries, but not all. I wish my country were more like the Netherlands, in the sense that drug laws were not so strict, for example.

Also, the Gadsden flag is not the Government's flag. The Gadsden flag is a flag that was flown by American minutemen during the Revolutionary war.

I am not blinded by my patriotism.

So, to be clear, you don't really mean "anything" you want to do, right?

I never said "anything" on its own. I said "anything that does not interfere with anyone else's right to do anything."

Clearly it is not my right to hurt someone, because that infringes on their liberties. However, if I sit in my house and use drugs all day, how does that affect you, or anyone else for that matter?

Now your just playing word games, pwill. You know, a mature man learns to own up to his mistakes.

Are you kidding me? I am not playing word games. This is utter nonsense.

rjwood, he told you, plain as day, what he meant. Stop trying to twist his words around.

You are free to do as you choose, with you're person or property, as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's person or property. That is liberty. That is freedom.

(Bold emphasis mine). So, this statement is not accurate, right? Lets say not specific enough. It's a vague statement, no?

It's poorly worded, perhaps, but not inaccurate. That's the basic concept. I'm free to do as I want, as long as nothing I do prevents you from being free to do what you want.

What are you missing? You are free to do what you want, until it prevents me from being free, be that through harm, theft, trespass, or other action or intent on your part that violates my property or person and freedom thereof.