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I couldn't decide whether to post this in Middle Eastern Politics or U.S. Politics. I originally decided to post it in M.E. and then moved it here, with a redirect there.

Regardless of that story, country either is, or nearly is a democracy. We can not prevent that many countries will eventually have access to building nukes either.

Iran happily steals sailors from sovereign waters of another state, smuggles weapons into Iraq and fuels and empowers the insurgency, has openly expressed its desire to wipe another state off the map, swaps and trades missiles in return for nuclear technology with North Korea, and has a less-than-stellar human rights record.

They're certainly not - and should not - be off the hook yet.

Tell me, seriously, is there anything that the mainstream press puts out that you DON'T swallow hook, line, and sinker?

And if you hold a country accountable for wiping states off the map, propagating nuclear weapons, and trashing human rights, I'm afraid the good ol' US of A is in BIG trouble. Maybe you should clean your own house first, then perhaps you'll be in a position to genuinely help others to clean theirs.

So those missing sailors were just an illusion? (A hologram, maybe?)

North Korea never actually set off that nuke? (With, more than likely, help from Iran.)

Iran is not funding and supplying the Iraqi insurgency with arms? (That coming from a good friend of mine, who's actually been to Iraq.)

Iran has never made a single threat towards Israel?

I'm not going to get on with you, am I?

If you're in such reprehension of the United States' global politics, you're free at any time to move to a paragon country of peace, like Iran for example. Please let me know how well you get on.

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The confrontation with Iran was fabricated in the media the same way the war with Iraq was fabricated - suddenly "Iran is getting nukes" is splashed all over and the sheeple cheer Bush/Hitler, all because Bush wants to extend his endless war.

Your mind is not open even a little bit to anything which is not an officially sanctioned view, so it is not possible to have a genuine conversation with you. I don't have an ax to grind, so I'll simply let you wrap yourself in your illusions. Eventually you'll discard them, but that process won't be pretty. The consequence of a closed, rigid mind tends to be a hard collision with reality. You live in a bubble reinforced by corporate propaganda, but the longer that bubble holds you, the harder the fall will be. You have a lot of change to live through. I don't need to make that happen - the truth eventually asserts itself.

Am I? Perhaps. Most of the phenomenon is global, though, so escapism is of limited effectiveness. Rather, I choose to free myself from the bonds of conventional thinking and nationalistic horseshit - your view, IOW - regardless of where I am located. I am a resident of Earth, and every human being and alien is family.

This bit may come as a shock to "Voice", but I may well have missed the boat on this part. From my experience, Iranians (not-so-surprisingly, the ones who aren't in Iran) are very friendly, kind people - intelligent, too. It's always struck me that the Iranians outside of Iran are greatly more Westernised than their counterparts back home. In Iran, they sound to be strongly oppressed under harshly imposed Sharia law, with total unification of the government and the religious leaders (notably Grand Ayatollah Khamenei).

My point being that, either way, I can't see any form of uprising against Tehran (never mind a coup d'etat). The Iranians aren't stupid, but they are repressed by their government, and George Bush is unlikely to be a factor behind whether or not an uprising would take place.

Sure, it's all fabricated by the media. You just keep telling yourself that.

You see, this is why I can't believe any of your 9/11 conspiracies. Everything I see you post is so far-fetched I cannot possibly pay any great attention to your opinion. It would, in fact, be inane of me to do so.

And vice versa for yourself. If it is an officially sanctioned view, you cannot possibly believe it.

"Hey pot, meet kettle."

"Black!"



Wanna bet on that? Payable via PayPal.

Riiiiight....

Now I'm sure you're nuts.

Its sad how large groups of people (a nation's population) can turn against other large groups of people (another nation's population) due to governmental policies. I like to think of myself as being disconnected enough from the U.S. government that I could be friends with people from any other country but in reality this could not happen because many times individuals are viewed as being one with the government of the country that they live in.

I agree with Big Dave that the Iranian people (those that I've met) are generally excellent people (I'm a little biased, my gf is part Iranian).

At least one (Behdad Esfahbod), is a well known Gnome developer, and etc.

Iran was also closely allied with Israel until the rise of the Ayatollah, with the former in a open war state with the later.

What my point? The Iranian people should get all the help they can get in order to overthrow their current government. Nukes will be a bad idea.

I would have to agree with Big Dave here. Iran is litterally treathening to wipe Israel of the map, while the US is "only" threathening with regime changes.

That was said with the return of the Ayatollah too. I wouldn't hold your breath. Some form of serious confrontation is just around the corner, whether Bush is still in office or not.

To add something more: don't just count on confrontation from the US. Remember those fifteen sailors we (the UK) had pinched from us back in March? Tehran has a less-than-stellar rapport with the British government, and we'd likely stand alongside the US in any military action/intervention towards Iran.

From news that i have read, I am under the impression that Iran does have some form of democracy. Even if they are oppressed, it may be because their concensus is that it is necessary. For a long time Western governments did not have women vote either. Admittedly i do not know much about Iran, but i still think we should keep trying the peaceful route.
I do not think they are true either. Anyway I think discussing them is a waste of time. Getting a decent model of the state of the world might well be unattainable, so i think we should rather look at what we can do we are sure of can improve the world. (like improving democracy)
Even if confrontation is around the corner, we should try not to be the cause of it.

Agreed.