I have some ideas as I am sure others do as well. Lets make a positve thread if we can. Lets try to collaborate, one step at a time.

I believe we have to turn back the clock slightly. From where we are now, my first focus would be to increase the age in which children begin schooling. I say we have them begin at age 10. I would recommend beginning clases at 2 different times during the day. 1st class to begin at 9:30 am and the second to begin at 11:30 am. School would last for 4 hours a day. There would be no lunch or gym class. From the years of 10 thru 15, it would be reading, writing, math and civics. It would be a self pace curriculum with no grade system other than a requirnment to pass a test to go on to the next level in each subject. The military does it this way, or at least used to when I served. When each student shows a mastery of subjects he or she would of course advance more quickly. In my opinion, there should be nothing outside this available unless it is privately funded.

My idea puts more obligation on the parents, which is where I believe it should be. In our current situation, parents are used to being professionals more than parents. That must shift back to how it was years ago. I believe parents should be mature enough to handle their finances more responsibly, do a better job of resisting overconsumption and living more within their means. Remember, it's not how much you make that is important. Rather it is how much you spend that makes the difference. That is basic money management 101. If adults cannot understand that, there should be classes available to them to assist, or even relatives and friends can share information on proper money management. Rather than talking to one another about sports and reality tv, this is the type of discussion that would go on between friends and family. Oh, I can hear the protests of some saying, 'but what about us, what about us'. Well, when people decide to have children, they decide to sacrifice their own self interests for those children. If they haven't, they better grow up fast and learn quickly. If they love their golf and football and television shows more than their kids, It will become crystal clear to them that their priorities are rather screwed up.

This much change in the process of how we educate our children would bring family back into our culture. The majority of responsibility would begin to shift back to where it belongs, with the family. Teachers would no longer be babysitters and parents would begin to reaquaint themselves with their family duties. The corporate world likes to call this a paradigm shift. Call it anything you want. What it is, is caring more for the emotional welfare of our youth. That in turn will begin a new and better tomorrow.

what do you think about Waldorf education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?

Did somebody say Waldorf salad?



Oops... sorry.

I'm a bit familiar with it. I think it starts the kids out too youg too. Otherwise it is a good system. However, I like the self pace programs better.

rjwood - I'm just wondering, why do you wish to get rid of lunch time?

I think that the current system (in BC, anyway - the only one I experienced) is actually pretty effective. I grew up in a rural location, and since I didn't have neighbourhood kids to play with, the only place for me to make friends was at school. My school also had a big emphasis on music, drama, and visual arts, which I believe are just as important as math and reading. We also didn't have any grades assigned during elementary school - report cards consisted of a subjective evaluation.

Basically, I think elementary school is about learning how to interact with other kids. Lunch time is equally as important as math class, because that's when you really figure out how to socialize on your own without adults around. If you wait until kids are 10 years old to expose them to other kids, then I think they're going to have a tough time adjusting.

I understand. My view is that a person developes a sense of community within the family unit first. Play time with other kids is nice and can be done with a little work outside the school system. It is up to parents to set up play time and those types of activities for their children. The other payoff doing it the way I suggest is the parents become connected with one another as well. The fact is, through the school system, children are interacting with other children outside the evaluation of the parents. parents put the trust in the school system for their childrens friendships. That is not the most favourable way to do it. Children are to be guided and nurtured until they have been tutored properly in friendship.

As for lunch, I am simply an advocate of families eating together and making the school system as lean as possible, both in terms of finance and childcare directing.

Arts: I believe arts are so vital in the development of people. However in my quest of keeping the system lean, I propose parents teach their children arts at first. At later ages the arts can be introduced on a formal basis when a person has developed an appreciation for them. Arts comes from roots of family activities. Parents, having all this new time being spent with their children will most likly do activities with them such as visit museums, memorials and other places of interest for perental bonding with their kids. During those activities, groups of parents may get together and do things as groups. That is another place where interaction takes place with kids. It become fun for all.

This gets parents out of the office and factory and chilren out of the clutches of a restrictive and overwhelmed school system. It puts mothers, fathers and kids back together. And it all gets done outside of religion.

What if they kids are not very good at test taking then what do you do?

It is not that type of a test. They simply take a multiple choice test in some subjects and a couple of essays. All through a computer and not timed.

There's a lot of thoughts floating around, but i'll try and break it down.

Education - School should be year round, with small breaks every few weeks. The first 3 years should focus on language, physical education, and the arts. The younger you start them on something, the easier it is to develop the patterns for adult life. Also, learning a second language allows for you to think in different ways. Following those years, you should focus on writing, math, and science, advancing on your own as you test up. This allows for kids to focus on the areas that they need to cover more then just letting them muddle through. This is in keeping with the previously learned areas. High school should be for the hard sciences, as well as what are now, the extracirricular activites.

Textbooks - Get rid of the conventional textbooks. That group has been driving everyone mad for years. They cost too much, have tons of errors, are sometimes out of date, and they're really heavy. You have any idea what that does to a child's back? Go global, find a text book that doesn't leave out the important stuff. Better yet, work with the technology companies and develop both software and hardware for the kids. The one laptop per child program can start right in americas inner city schools. A paperless school is also more green.

Money - Get the DOD to put up 5% of it's budget. You'll have better meals for the kids, which means healthier kids, which ends up meaning happier kids (think serrtonin levels). You have more funding for equipment and textbooks. All those "extra" programs your schools are cutting, they'll be back. Then, think about the teachers.

Teachers - Think about how much teachers make and double it if the DOD gives away part of it's budget. That will drive more people to choose it as a career. And by making the school year longer keeps them employeed longer, so they'll be much happier. If you start programs now in colleges, you might beable to beat the teacher shortage that will happen in about 20 years. Check the stats, less and less people want to be teachers. It's now a fallback career for everyone.

Other - We do need to take more responsibilty from the schools and place them with the parents. Life is hard, but the decision to have a child is one that no one makes for you. Schools should be safe places, I fully believe in proper screening of all school staff, cameras in every classroom, and built like any federal building, with enough protection to protect the occupants. Competitive sports should be encouraged, it build character, but it should not be made to be competitive with other programs.

Personally, I'd like to change the "feel" of school more than anything.

As it is, the emphasis in grade school is on rote memorization and rigid structure. Aside from art classes, there is little or no actual critical or creative thinking done in the current public school system. It's mostly a shut-up-sit-down-memorize-this-and-repeat-it-on-the-test approach.

There should be more emphasis on what the kid is interested in, and more personal projects. Core classes should be math, english and science, and everything else should be an elective (with listed pre-requisites).

As for the approach, science and math should be taught at a more conceptual level.

It's not as important to memorize a particular result of science, as much as understanding the overarching philosophy and methodology of the science.

For example why not compare two theories (say evolution and so-called "Intelligent Design") how they fit the available evidence. Identifying science and pseudo-science is never really addressed in the current system. The fact that so many people think ID is a real science shows that we've spent time on details rather than the big picture.

Also, I think some classes should be "free form"... and basically defined by the interests of the students.

I totally agree! That is where I would steer it beginning at 16 years of age..

slightly related :

Va. School's No-Contact Rule Is a Touchy Subject - washingtonpost.com

Wow, that just seems so wrong. I can see banning fights, or kids making out in the hallways... but shaking hands? And everyone needs a hug from time to time.

This one of the many problems with todays school system. They keep heaping layer upon layer of rules. It is necessary in the current setup but it does not have to be this way. All we need to do is change slightly. When the school system is not creating another layer of rules to control behaviour, politicians are throwing money at it, whether it be toward the public system or the approved private alternatives

Thanks for posting, everyone. Here's my take:

I think 5 is too young to start going all day every day. Although I don't see a problem with a 5-year-old being involved in a group learning situation a couple of days a week. I think 10 is too late. I would begin school at 5, but not go every day at first. Maybe start going everyday at around 8 or 9. Something like that.

The first few years should be spent learning arithmetic and reading/writing. That's it. Those are the building blocks upon which subsequent learning is built. And I would begin with rote memorization, but start introducing "discovery-based" learing pretty quickly a little at a time. Then beginning around 10 or 12, start introducing history and science. And these need to be taught way better than what they are now. We should not be teaching scientific theories as facts to memorize like we do now. We should be presenting the children with evidence and suggesting the theories that we now believe best explain the data. That's how science works, and if you're going to teach science then you should teach it right. I also think foreign language should be mandatory and should be taught from the beginning (studies clearly show that language acquisition is way better if you start before the age of 10).

I would end high school at the age of 16. Then you could have 2 years of liberal arts education for those who choose to continue (this would basically run about like a community college). Then we could completely remove the liberal arts portion of university so that if you go to college you only take courses in your major. Thus reducing the amount of time it takes someone to become reasonably educated. If you want a blue-collar job, then go get one when you're 16. Why not?

You do not think the family needs to be reinforced? Remember, every requirement for children connected to the school system is time taken from family.

My focus is to reconnect family members to one another. I don't see or hear any of you addressing that issue. The family is what is suffering in america. That is at the heart of the loneliness children suffer thru disconnection. When we talk about the school system, we are, by extension, talking about family and the negative affect school has. We have to recognise that stangers are raising the children we brought into this life. That is the job of those who have chosen to have those children. How many hours a day does family spend together? How many hours a day do children spend at school? Why is it more important for children to be good at math then be good at family relationships? Is it because money cannot be made at family relationships unless it is the result of education making one a so called expert?

I do think that families need to reconnect. I failed to address that in my post. If a child spends 4 hrs twice a week in school, then the rest of the time they're with family I think that gives plenty of time back to the family. As children get older, I still don't think they need 8 hours a day in school, or better yet, not all 5 days. In college, a student generally spends about 12-15 hours per week in class. That seems like it's enough. I would be in favor of shortening days, adding in more breaks, and reducing the number of years needed to get an education. Beyond that, it's the parents' responsibility to make sure that the family is where it needs to be. As a parent, I am very intent on seeing to it that I and my wife -- not the "system" -- teach our children to think and to live. But I don't see how to make that happen if the parents are not proactive.

I believe most parents would become pro active when It would befall them to be.

I hope you're right.

Things can't get much worse then they are now...Many of these kids who had been put on behaviour modification drugs due to pressure put on parents from the school system, are now beginning to become adults. It is not a good result in far too many cases.