I am a christian, and I'm sure that statement alone makes many people thing "CONSERVATIVE NUTCASE!"

well the truth is, we are not all that way. we are not all mind-controlled, close-minded, conservatives who believe you have to do as we say.


In my religion, there is no hell. I dont really want to get deep into it, but basically, its not my job to judge you, even remotely (ex. I cant even say "oh God will judge him as bad" I just accept you).


So my question is why does the government get to decide so many things for you?

the big thing I can think as an example is pot.

personally, I think its stupid, and it messes you up.

but, I have alot of friends who do it, and its there choice. Life is a gift, and they should spend it how they want, why should the government get to tell them what they can or can't do. and why should I judge them for what they do?


just my personal thought on the government controlling some things over people.

Well, let me put it in plain simple english. You are a nut for one. I am a Christian, and number one, Christian's don't lower case the word Christian. Ok. So maybe it was a typo error. I'll accept that.

Second point, if you are a Christian, how do you NOT believe in hell?
Well, I guess that rules that theory out... Next.

Point Three, it IS your job to judge.
How else do you know someone, unless you judge their fruits? Let's be realistic.

I really don't uderstand why you are asking why the governent controls you. They control you because they are over you. A dictatorship. One World Government. It's all coming. This is just the precepts to it all.

The government is evil. I judge that by their fruits. You mean to tell me that you can't tell me they are evil? Why? Are you saying their exceeding wickedness is righteousness ?

Dr Small

What happened to "judge not lest ye be judged"? Or is this just another biblical phrase that the so-called believer can pick and choose from to suit his personal bias?

here here for joshj.

and "hell" can be taken differently. i believe that everyone can be forgiven of there sins, that life is a continum even after death, where eventually everyone will repent.


And, if you know ANYTHING about Christianity, you know that Jesus taught "Let you without sin, cast the first stone" (aka DONT JUDGE OTHERS BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT PERFECT).

you're quote from Mattew about knowing people by there fruits obviously means that a man is defined by what he does.

see how quickly you judge me, because you think you find disprecancies in my arguement? if people didn't judge one another, the world would be a much less violent and savage place.


cheers,
Trab

This man sounds like an anarchist to me.

Just because one opposes anti-marijuana legislation doesn't make one an anarchist, and furthermore resorting to flaming someone as an anarchist is not a legitimate rebuttal- it is akin to calling anyone advocating some form of tax on the wealthy as a communist. In short, you are here no better than McCarthy. You declare some broad philosophy to be inherently bad merely because you disagree with it, and then when someone says something you disagree with, you immediately slap that label on them.

Quoted just for the quote.

1Cor. 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints [the saved; Christians] will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

I should point out that when we Christians judge someones actions or behavier we had better not be guilty of the samething. A couple of examples -

-Condeming homosexuals while haveing a homosexual relationship

-Condeming porn while your computer is full of it

Doing so not only discredits you, it also discredits Christions everywhere.

As to how and why the government controlls us, two things, we let them and the golden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules.

Agreed that you should ABSOLUTELY not be hipocrital, but personally, I'm convinced that Judging is left to God, (though I believe that quote refers to Judging in Heaven. But, the bible absolutely teaches mercy, so perhaps the challange is that the saints must learn to judge with mercy).

Perhaps the point of life is to learn to judge well, however as we are not perfect (until perhaps after death depending on your personal beliefs), how can we be expected to judge?


its rather pretentious of you to assume that the all-knowing God would want YOU to judge someone else.

and i'm not an anarchist, I believe government is a good thing, our current government is just a joke. Bush says he's Christian, I don't see him acting very Christ like...

I wish more Chirstians would think before they speak.


cheers,
Trab

1Cor. 6:3 ..... How much more the things of this life!

Besides, if God were to judge us daily I don't think any of us would be here having this conversation.

Chroniker, I dont understand what you're point is with that last scripture...

are you saying we will be judged later, or we are to judge each other now, or something completely different?

cheers,
Trab

Ok. So you are telling me, that no matter how wicked you live here, on earth, you still go to heaven and can repent there? Wow. I guess no one goes to hell, for their wicked deeds, such as Hitler, Sadam Hussein and the rest. Creepy.

Are you insinuating that Jesus wasn't perfect? Why didn't he thow the first stone?
This was an example of grace. Jesus told here,
He told her NOT to sin anymore. That is compassion. That is grace. But she WAS wicked, and the people judged and accused her of it. Would you not feel safer if when out in town somewhere, and one of your friends said, "Don't sit by him, he's a murderer."

Exactly. That is how you judge a person, by what they do. Their fruits.

Satan doesn't want you to judge other people. That way you don't know if Joe down the street is righteous or wicked. Then you say, "I can't judge myself." It's all a plan of the devil to take more people to hell.

He wants you to judge, to know who is righteous, and who is wicked. He never gave you authority to condemn a person to hell, but you can know who is righteous, who is wicked, and how to distinct between them.

Why should you see him Christ like? He's a satanist. A Satanist won't act Christlike. The two are opposites.

Dr Small

perhaps you and I can learn to agree, I am SICK of Bush and what he is doing.


Yes, in a sense I am saying that even Hitler could go to heaven, however, how likely is it for him to ever repent? (Its not like he could fool God).

No, my point was that ONLY Jesus was perfect, and yes, he may judge, but even in his judgment he choose to show mercy.

yes people will be judged by what they do, but what right of it is mine to judge them? I do not know there life story, there are so MANY things I do not know, how can i condemn another man?

Satan means condemner. Satan is the one who goes around spreading evil, and once you have done this evil, he is the one who will stand before you in a crowd saying "look at what this one has done! he has sinned!"

the only person you can even begin to judge is yourself, and even then I believe you should open your heart to the Spirit and be in prayer with God, lest you fall.

I'm not saying wickedness is acceptable. I'm saying leave it to God to deal with it. I'm saying have a little faith that if you stay close to Him, you won't NEED to judge others, as He will lead you.

Its funny, because I'm willing to bet you judge me. because my beliefs/statements don't line up with your own, I must be a satanist in disguise, or something else thusly. but the truth is, you know nothing about, nothing about my beliefs, nothing about my circumstances, or anything. This is just an example of how man judging another man is a mistake.


cheers,
Trab

Trab,

Here we are in agreement, when the time comes we, the Saints, will sit in judgment of the world and angels as well.


Here I am saying that we are told that we are to daily judge our brothers and sisters actions and hold them accountable.

I'll also say that I'm not perfect. I will sin and I will be held accountable. I also know that I am forgiven. But being forgiven does not mean that I can, or that I will be allowed to, live a life of sin.

Hahahahahahaha!

I wasn't criticizing him at all. I agree with what he is saying.

Way to make yourself look like a fool.

Where in my post did I say that I opposed libertarianism or anarchism? All I said was "He sounds like an anarchist"

eh. chorinker, I actually very much inturperate that scripture differently, I dont think its my daily job to judge my brothern. God is to judge them (and yes, in heaven the saints may as well, however as I said, we are not perfect yet.) and we are to show acceptance, compassion, love, and mercy. People are help responisible for there actions, sure, but it is my job to "turn the other cheek" and to forgive.

Pwill, I guess you never did say that.

Government is an establishment created by man, and is subject to man's imperfection. in fact, I don't believe God mean for us to be "governed" by other men, but alas, we choose to, and so we must follow the rules of we layed down.

I remember being taught back as a child god forgives every sin if you really regret them. (catholic)

I have not been going to church for years so I'm not sure what's the actual state of affairs though.

Dr Small - It takes a special breed of troll to be at the same time pretentious and ignorant in his rhetoric.

Hear, hear.

Trab, we are closing the distance between us. I may be wrong in this but when we, as Christians, judge a brother or sister we are not condeming or carrying out a sentencing. The only thing we are doing is pointing out where the other is wrong and help in correction. That is provided the one in the wrong is willing to listen. This goes for me as well. If I am wrong here someone please correct me.

MT 18:15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’[b] 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19 “Again I say[c] to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

Yes, we are to show compassion, love, mercy, forgiveness and to accept that we cannot change others. We can only plant seeds and let the Lord change the hearts of others.

MT 18:21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.
28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down at his feet[d] and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’[e] 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”[f]

Here we are in complete agreement. And if I'm not mistaken, Nimrod established the first kingdom and built the Tower of Babel and, well, you can see how well that went.