I was over in the Gun Control thread in the Civil Liberties section participating in the discussion and I remembered something that I saw some years ago.
I was flying into Frankfurt on the German side, exiting the international terminal and I saw some Polizei roaming the area. These gentlemen were armed with submachine guns.
I am wondering a few things: first, do Polizei still carry sub-guns in the airport? Second, is this common throughout Europe? And third, Why can't we Americans get our police to carry machine guns?

I'm not an international traveller but I can confirm that the British Police have body armour and sub-machine guns at the airports. All police now wear light body armour, black stab proof vests. British police still don't carry guns but highly trained armed response units are only a radio call away at all times. The good old British bobby is a thing of the past...

It might be a surprise to our American cousins but terrorists did exist before 9/11. Over this side of the pond we have been living with the IRA for 40 years. Thankfully we no longer have any issues with them but the Islamists have taken over as killers on our streets. Most home grown which is a disturbing fact.

I can confirm this too - having had them pointed at me for protesting at an airport... Since 9/11 armed police are normal in airports and seemingly normal near our parliamentary buildings.

No, no, no. I'm not disputing the fact that terrorism is older than 9/11. I've been in the military 15 years and remember many incidents involving U.S. troops. I also remember watching the news about the IRA when I was younger trying to figure out what the problem was. No, my question is different than that.

What I wonder is why it seems that so many countries outside of the U.S. find it perfectly normal to have military-grade, fully automatic weapons issued to the police but the police here in the States have to wait until things like the Los Angeles bank robbery occur before they can get a civilianized carbine rifle. Seems kinda bass ackwards to me.

I also wonder why, it seems, that people from outside the U.S. being so comfortable with the police being armed to the teeth (terrorist protection - good point), but they are not comfortable with personal gun ownership (terrorist protection?).

Maybe that's going a little off-topic. I'm just trying to fully understand, in my own mind, the differences. I'd also like my police to be better armed than the criminal element...

I'm not comfortable with the police having such weapons in general usage, or any guns in general usage. There is far too much room for error - just look at the Charles de Menezes case.

Armed units should only be around for situations which need such weapons. And patrolling an airport is not one of those situations.

I'm not particularly happy with random security officers having guns. There's been far too much abuse from the police in the USA. Just look at the video of the UCLA tasering, for crying out loud.

i cant speak for others, but when police have weapons theyve had years of training in how to deal with them, what situations to use them under and will only use them after exhausting all other options, and even yourr average police officer doesnt carry a gun, only airport secuirty and specially trained units. at a guesstimate id say less than 5% of police officers can carry guns.

just to add some similar info:
After 9/11, I saw french militaries with machine guns at train stations in Paris. (I don't remember how long after 9/11 it was)
But I never saw policemen there with machine guns.

Personally, I think it's ok for normal policeman to carry handguns, but machine guns, no.
And I am against personal gun ownership.

The officers at the airport were BPOL units formerly known as "Bundesgrenzschutz".

They are special units an not ordinary police. German Federal Police - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't believe that. There have been at least 4 incidents in the UK where armed police have used their weapons without just cause/accidentally discharged them in the last year or so.

Just because they've been trained doesn't mean they won't overuse them.

the police are only human, and if even after all that training theyve still made such mistakes, imagine how many mistakes joe public and the average bobby would make if they were allowed handguns. that merely reinforces the arguement against the point that i was contending which was

and im not comfortable with anyone with guns, but for small number of police to have them given the current political climate, is just another necessary evil.

I don't believe that the ones I saw were BPOL nor were they Feldjagers (sorry for missing the umlaud). They had the same distinctive green and tan(ish) uniform of all the other Polizei that I saw in the country (of course this was 13 years ago that I left).

Now, I know that this picture says that the guy's a policeman, but I could have sworn (old age and memories) that their shirts were a lighter color. Nonetheless, you can definitely see the butt stock of what appears to be a full-sized MP5 (nice gun, by the way).

Since you're currently living there, you would have better knowledge to me; is this guy bundespolizei or is he regular polizei? (I'm genuinely curious and not trying to sharpshoot)

the bundespolizei wears the same uniforms with other badges.

protecting airports, or control sea boarders is a task of the bpol.

the english wikipedia article does not provide this information (german one does)

Frankfurt is btw the only airport i ever saw policemen. well it's one of the biggest in the world and stuff like the european central bank are located in frankfurt.

At our city airport there are just ordinary security guards.

I miss living in Germany. I hate Texas.

Cool, thanks for the info. By the way, didn't you say one time that you were in the southwest? I spent two years stationed in Kaiserslautern and look forward to heading back to Germany one day.

Totally agree. There's nothing like flying down the bahn and not having to worry about some amateur driver losing it and taking out your whole family. Well, and the countless other things I loved about Germany

I'm living in Saarbrücken the capital of the Saarland 70km away from Kaiserslautern.

Many Americans come to SB on weekends to party as it's bigger than Kaiserslautern.

To the topic's question: I'd say a bit, but so is all of Europe, since 9/11. This has nothing to do with Hitler being in Germany before :P

Extreme Coder

Hi,
I am a bit confused, what has the title of this post to do with the subject? Anyway, the police here do carry guns, which does include automatic weapons for "sensitive" area's. This however has nothing to do with the so called "war on terror" being carried out by the USA at the moment. The big difference, is that the citizens (thank the gods) are not allowed any sort of weapon, therefor giving the police here rarely a reason for ever using thier weapons. I think that having a country full of "gun pulling patriots" is a very good way to encourage terrorism, not to prevent it.

I know that I can walk the streets here, and one thing I do not have to worry about, is the thought of being shot, either by the police or a criminal. So long as we manage to hold our values then so shall it remain. How many people loose thier lives every single day in the USA as a result of gunfire? And you feel safe, with your gun at your side? Strange.....

Greetings
anthony

In Holland the regular police only carry pistols. Not long ago there was an article about many policemen failing their anual shooting range test. I guess many office policemen. Don't even want to think about them carrying auto-weapons.

On the airport they also carry sub-machine guns here, as do the special police forces.

I'm strongly against personal gun ownership. They lead to more murders / deaths. Why would you need a gun for anyway?

People tend to act irrationally when they believe they are in danger. Them having a gun on them can have seriously horrific consequences.

Of course, there are a lot of variables in each situation. The main question being whether, when a person is in danger, is it likely to be a "them or me" situation? Generally not, though it can seem like that to the person at the time.

On the police comment, I don't think so many really are comfortable with certain police units being armed to the teeth with weapons, considering how some have shown themselves to be as incompetent and irrational as a member of the general public. However, it generally is only a very small amount of specialised units who have access to them.

I could point out that people will act just as irrationally with knives actually, but I think I'll leave it as it is; that's a pretty common view on the pro-gun control stance.