Do you think the USA Patriot Act infringes on the Civil Liberties of US Citizens? Is it worth it for the amount of protection it provides?

Some of the provisions in the patriot act do bring up some concerns for me. But I'll admit I have never given it much though either.. hrm food for thought.

I don't know enough about it unfortunately, so I haven't voted.
But from the little bit that I've heard and read, it sounds scary.

I don't want our future to be a society like in "1984".
I'm saying "our" even tough I don't live in the US, because I have a feeling that it seems to become a general trend in the developed countries.

I understand the concern about terrorism, but I think we should still be careful about how far we let our governments go.

Here's the wikipedia article on the patriot act:
USA PATRIOT Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have only a vague idea of what the Patriot Act is, so I won't vote.


But people have to recognize that much of the Western world is in a state of war right now. If you want to stay safe during this period, you have to sacrifice some rights.

Now, that needs to be balanced with the question "What does the West stand for?". There are some small things- not rights, but privledges- that might need to be cut back. The problem is that some people take privledge=right, and since a right is a pillar of Western society, it cannot be infringed upon. The latter part is somewhat right, but a privledge is revokable. People need to see that for the whole to stay safe, the individual might need to cede some privledges.

However, it's a prickly path as when do you find the right balance of privledge and responsibility?

You have to understand that the Patriot Act completely goes against the what U.S. stands for. The government now has the ability to check your emails, phone calls, cell phone records financial records without you permission among other things.

Oh.

Well I'd say at first glance that would infringe upon privacy rights. There's too much ability for misuse of that.


If they do that, they should have to get a judge to approve it first, like a warrant.

hi

ok say all conterys(in the world) can tap every phone, email, and so on, i say god luck, then it will be no one withote a jobb enymore, everybody will be working whit anylaysing phone call and emails

Read up on the little prog the FBI had going to spy on the people and if you really want to know how far it has gone check out the secret spy room that ATT&T and the NSA had going.

Just those have me dead set against the major portions of the Patriot[spy]Act.

Jon

I am wholeheartedly against the Patriot act. It doesn't do what it claims to, there are clearly HUGE problems with civil liberty violations, and the power it grants to the government are too ill-defined. To me, it really comes down to the fact that the government can spy on me without my knowledge based on any suspicion. That's just scary.

I think that the amount of power the Patriot act grants would probably corrupt the best person in the world. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that politicians are all bad people, but there are always people who will abuse power if it's available.

Yeah, they should. And there is a system in place to do so--it even gives a grace period (45 days, I think) so that the government can begin surveillance, THEN apply for a warrant to do so. That covers cases where the surveillance needs to start immediately. Even that makes me really uncomfortable, but that system has not been used in a lot of phone tapping cases...big scandal here in the US.

The Patriot act was passed immediately following 9-11 when everyone was scared and would accept ANYTHING that claimed to keep them safe. I think a lot of politicians who voted to pass it probably regret it now, but the mass hysteria following 9-11 clouded a lot of people's thinking.

Summary of my opinion: the Patriot act scares the poo out of me, violates my civil liberties and right to privacy, and is a completely ineffective tool for preventing terrorism.

You say "the mass hysteria following 9-11" as if it's over. It's not, really, and that's unfortunate.

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" -- Benjamin Franklin

Wow. I'm happily surpsised at the poll results so far > maybe everyone in the US isn't completely crazy just yet afterall!!

I had to do a search for this: :P
Hacktivist.Net

Dr Small

Hey guys! What's goin' on in this thread?

So far, I'm the only one. I voted that it works, but it's not worth the loss of our liberties (or whatver the exact words were). Proof? None. I just apply my (limited) logic and figure that if the bad guys can't hide because we're snooping on them, then it's gotta work.
On the second point: it's not worth it. Frak summed up my thoughts on the topic with his quote

Just because Ben Franklin or the American Constitution says it doesn't make it true

I might agree with that Ben Franklin quote - but it's still just a statement, you need reasons and justification for it.

Much like ID cards in the UK i can't see how it could possibly help prevent terrorism, just intrude on our freedoms.

The mass hysteria over 9/11 really clouds things when you're talking about these issues, especially with Americans and others exposed to the Western media which is still harping on about an event which, on the world scale (and i don't mean to offend anyone here) it isn't nearly as big a deal as our media would have us believe. 9/11 was maybe the first time there had been such a big attack on US soil, so it was shocking for US citizens, i mean.. God forbid all these trampled-upon countries should be able to do to us even a fraction of what us (and that is, Western countries, mostly the USA) do to them on a daily basis.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | 'Huge rise' in Iraqi death tolls
Estimates of the number of Iraqis killed as a result of this pointless war in Iraq reach well into the hundreds of thousands so perhaps we deserve this almost incomparably small backlash of violence.

As long as the Patriotic Act is an attempt to keep the US people distracted from the fraud G. W. Bush committed to 'become' US president, it is illegitimate and don't look forward American's rights/benefit.

I don't really feel like we're all in a state of war...
Well, Ok, I'm not in the US right now. I'm in Germany. ^^

What are you talking about? Oh, the "war" on terror?! Haha... So do you view this as a whole western-world vs the terrorists thing then? No, what's actually happening is the USA needs something to occupy its great war machine and distract its public.

What's the Patriot Act?

@ Moniker42, I wholeheatedly agree. IMO, the war on terror was something the U.S. Gov made to be able to attack any country it wishes to attack, at any time for no reason(except undercover benefits) And to gain the name of the Terrorist Fighter from Worldwide media.

Extreme Coder