While I'm over here in the USA I can no longer vote, I can't vote in the UK elections and I can't vote in the USA elections making me an outcast in the democratic world.

what do people think about allowing permanent immigrants that are not citizens to vote in local and national elections that may very well effect their lives?

I think you need to be a citizen of Country you are voting in.

The rights of illegal immigrants in the US is a big deal. Sad part is that most illegal immigrants think they are "owed" such rights. They came here, illegally, breaking the Laws of US, yet they demand stuff like state benefits and federal benefit. Thats the sad part.

in this case DoctorMO is a legal immigrant though. I think there would be no harm in it really.

Illegal immigrants though, definitely not.

They think that because if you remember a lot of the people came from other countries back in the 1800 and 1900's. I personally don't agree with it either. If I went to another country and pulled that I would sent back to the United States or thrown in jail.

The key word here is illegal. If you are in a country legally and you have taken the time to become a citizen of that country, you do should to vote. But if you get in by illegal means you should not get to vote or even stay for that matter. I live along the Mexican border and see examples of the problem everyday. Crime is running wild here.
Also as you become a citizen of a country, You should fit in with the country not try to change the country to fit you. That is the problem with illegals. They think you should bend over for them.
Thats what makes it hard for people like DoctorMO. It is all the ones that don't belong here. That cause the problems and give good people bad names.

I think what he's saying is that he's a legal resident, but not a citizen.


Voting is one of those things that is a right of the citizen at or above the age of majority. I don't think it should be given to legal immigrants until citizenship because (at least, in Canada) you need to do things like swear or affirm some oaths, be able to be drafted, etc. You need to put something (other than taxes) back in.

For example: If I needed to apply for Canadian citizenship (which I don't have to as I got it by birth), I would need to do several things, including swearing an oath to the Queen of England promising to do what's best in the interests of the nation.

Thats the key. Live here and apply for the right to be a citizen. Then vote.
By the way, some of our Canadian friends say we should welcome the illegals from the South. just a question, without starting a war, would those same people like us to just give them a ride to the border . I remember going to Canada, what a drill just to go over the border for 2 days. Your country has the border done right.

Then since I wish to protect my future earnings from pervasive USA taxing I can not become a citizen without harming my future prospects (i.e. the USA will attempt to tax me even if I move back to the EU on all my earnings) and there really isn't a good quick way to quit or cancel.

And the above posts are correct, I'm a legal resident because my wife is American, I'd personally rather be in the UK but I love my wife enough to put up with the USA. I just wish I could still vote in UK elections, but then I guess that wouldn't be fair since it's counted on a local level and there wouldn't be a council of expatriates.

So it's sad in so many ways, the distrust shown in a number of threads and posts over illegal immigrants is quite amazing, we have the same problem in the UK but it's totally our own fault for screwing up half the world and attempting to suck every drop of worth out of poor countries in order to enrich our own.

This is an interesting perspective. So many in the US talk about people breaking laws but the only people they are willing to punish for said violations are the poor and the weak, thus encouraging the rich and the powerful to break even more laws.

Either you all are hypocrites or ignorant. And if you all have such a hard on for rule of law: we all know that this country was stolen in the first place. Let's do reparations for the injured parties of that illegality.

No takers on that, huh?

If you work and are taxed, you should be able to vote. Period.

Only a Citizen or Naturalized Citizen has EARNED the right to Vote, and it should stay that way.

Right, because merely being born in one place instead of another means you've earned it.

Ditto that. Anyone paying taxes should have the right to vote.

The problem is, it's like a ridiculous and strenuous 6-year effort to become a United States citizen... including taking an exam which most adult Americans cannot even pass.

It's all a hold-over of the naturalist attitude of the 19th and 20th centuries, and it needs fixing.