I saw it today. Would like to discuss it with anyone else who may have seen it.

I don't plan on it. Evolution is compatible with belief in God... it's a non-issue from a modern theological viewpoint. The pope has noted this as well. I'd suggest Ben Stein review the history of Galileo, Darwin, and others ... the idea that scientists are the ones persecuting Christians is laughably backwards.

It looks like you aren't familiar with the movie or the ideas presented in it at all. One of the major points of the movie is that a belief in intelligent design is compatible with Science and can at least be questioned. Stein uses Galileo and other scientists in proving his thesis.

You can't compare Galileo to what "Big Science" is doing today anyway. Galileo challenged the consensus view at the time. If you were to analogize the two, Galileo, Newton, and the like, would be the ones challenging the consensus view today - and being figuratively burned at the stake for it.

There is no promotion of creationism in the film - far from it.

I haven't seen the movie but from what you are saying it seems that is is proposing that intelligent design is a valid scientific alternative that needs to be examined. I'm not sure that this is so.

For a point of view to be scientific it need to have a basis for a testable hypothesis. All I see is in intelligent design theory is explanations of the complexities of biology that have to be taken on faith. That to me is not science.

Perhaps you could share with us some of the theories presented in the movie to see if they have a scientific grounding.

I agree that belief in "intelligent design" is compatible with both science and evolution (as a likely mechanism). Many great scientists (like Einstein) believed in God, who have helped shape the theory of evolution. Darwin himself was undecided on the existence of God.

As far as teaching "intelligent design" in schools goes ... honestly it might be a good idea. It could be used as an example of comparing several theories, comparing to the data, having the students select the "best model" in their minds. Other supernatural theories could be thrown into the mix as well.

From an atheistic perspective, "intelligent design" theory may be partly true, in that an organism plays a vital part in selecting a mate... meaning there is *some* intelligence involved in overall species evolution, just not necessarily a supernatural kind. A species will evolve, partly, in the direction that it wants to evolve.

Although it's one of those things where people like Ben Stein should be "wary of what they wish for." Putting religion in a science class may actually damage religious faith more than help it ... do they really want a biology teacher dissecting their faith?

That's not the case either. You guys really just need to see the movie rather than make assumptions.

That rules out Darwinism and macro evolution. Darwinism goes so far, but leaves a lot unanswered.

Then you obviously have a uninformed, shallow understanding of intellgent design.

The film doesn't really present any theories other than Darwinism and macro evolution. It certainly doesn't promote any of the theories.

Richard Dawkins fans will be disappointed because the man has an utter meltdown and makes a fool of himself.

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!




The guy starts talking about how space aliens might be the explanation for the origins of life.

I'd like to see it but it hasn't been release in my neck of the woods. Feel free to post more spoiler alerts.

Please enlighten me then to inform my shallow, uninformed view

Maybe I was a little harsh. None the less, I found your description different than mine - and note, in this rare case, I didn't say "wrong." This whole area of thought isn't one of my strong points so I'm not very dogmatic about it - I really don't care what others believe on the issue.

Anyway, you said:

I think one has to be careful to distinguish between creationism - which sets out to make explanations of how things came about, for example young earth beliefs, six 24 hour days, etc. Beliefs that do require a high degree of faith.

All ID does, is suggest that origins of life and evolution were not necessarily or entirely undirected. In other words, it is nothing more than a possible answer to the questions that are so far unanswerable.





More spoilers:





One area of the film that made it lose some points with me, was the decision to discuss how darwinism was connected to nazism. They didn't say anything that wasn't true or reasonable, I just don't think it was necessary to add to the film, and made it look like they were trying to show the shortcomings of darwinism on emotional grounds when they were doing such a fine job of doing that on scientific evidentiary grounds.

I take it this is supposed to be silly. But what is God, but a specific type of alien? The existence of a specific non-matter-based type is known with less certainty than a general type. As far as speculation goes, it's better to keep it vague, and closer to what is known.