What is Godwin's Law? (or, why can't I mention the Nazis and get away with it?)

matthew · 05-17-2007

Back in the early 1990s a guy named Mike Godwin proposed on Usenet, the place to chat and discuss things like we do here, that as internet discussions become longer (and more heated), the probability of a comparison to the Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

This law says nothing about whether the comparison is apt or not, merely that it becomes more likely to occur the longer the discussion continues.

There is a long standing tradition on the internet that once this comparison has been made, all rational discussion has ended and the thread is essentially finished...there's no point in trying to continue the conversation from that point forward. The tradition also states that the person who makes the comparison automatically loses the argument. Period.

More here: Godwin's Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your comments?

matthew · 05-17-2007

Oh, I forgot to mention. An intentional invoking of the Nazis or Hitler for the purposes of ending a thread does not count. That simply makes someone a meanie.

matthew · 05-17-2007

Some historic data you may find interesting...

Quote:

From: Mike Godwin <mnemonic`-at-`eff.org>
Subject: Godwin's Law
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:39:39 -0500 (EST)

Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies [a.k.a the Sexton-Godwin Law]:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
[Usenet Message-ID: <1991Aug18.215029.19421@eff.org>, 18 Aug 1991;
possibly posted in this form as early as 1990 on The WELL.]

Morgan's Corollary:
As soon as such a comparison occurs, someone will start a
Nazi-discussion spinoff thread on alt.censorship.

The Sircar/Case Corollary:
If the USENET discussion touches on homosexuality or Heinlein, Nazis or
Hitler are mentioned within three days.
[This has been credited to both Sircar and Case, whose full names no one
appears to recall.]

Van der Leun's Corollary:
As global connectivity improves, the probability of actual Nazis being
on the net approaches one.
[Long proven quite true.]

Miller's Paradox:
As a network evolves, the number of Nazi comparisons not forestalled by
citation to Godwin's Law converges to zero.

Quirk's Exception:
Intentional invocation of Godwin's Law is ineffectual.

Bentsen's [highly fallacious] Defense:
Not this time. I know Mike Godwin. Mike Godwin is a friend of mine.
You're no Mike Godwin.
[Named for Senator Lloyd Bentsen's "You're no Jack Kennedy" line from the
1988 vice-presidential debates. A.k.a. Cooley's Defense, after the
original poster.]

[Gordon's Restatement of] Newman's Corollary:
Libertarianism (pro, con, and internal faction fights) is *the*
primordial netnews discussion topic. Anytime the debate shifts
somewhere else, it must eventually return to this fuel source.

**********

Cf. the related but more general Wilcox-McCandlish Law
of Online Discourse Evolution (and Corollaries):
http://www.eff.org/Net_culture/Folkl...mccandlish.law

Cf. also Benford's Law of Controvery:
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information
available.
- Gregory Benford, 1980.

**********

Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny
Subject: Trial of the Century to end soon
From: chesler`-at-`@sunspot.tiac.net (David Chesler)
Keywords: topical, smirk, USENET
Approved: funny-request`-at-`clari.net
Message-ID: <S8ba.6508@clarinet.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 3:20:13 EDT

We can be assured that the OJ Simpson trial will be ending soon,
as defense attorney Johnny Cochrane has invoked Godwin's Law by
likening Detective Mark Furhman to Adolph Hitler -- so no further
rational discourse is possible.

**********

Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 13:55:15 est
From: "Chris G. Topher Hughes" <HUGHESCH`-at-`DICKINSON.EDU>
To: mnemonic`-at-`EFF.ORG
Subject: Godwin's Law on Muds

[...] Godwin's law [...] was probably imported from Usenet, but
it's mutated to:

"Anytime the players outnumber the wizards by 3 to 1 or more, at least
one wizard will be accused of being a fascist with delusions of grandeur"

I've heard it on 3 or 4 different MUDs now. Thought you'd like to know
it's spreading more.

Topher Hughes

**********

"Godwin's Law? Isn't that the law that states that once a discussion
reaches a comparison to Nazis or Hitler, its usefulness is over?"
- Cliff Stoll ("Cuckoo's Egg" author), ca. 1994

**********

The alleged original formulation:

"You can tell when a USENET discussion is getting old when one of the
participants drags out Hitler and the Nazis."
- Richard Sexton (Richard J. Sexton) stating, in essence, what
would later become "codified" as Godwin's Law,
Usenet Message-ID: <21000@gryphon.COM>, 16 Oct 1989

**********

Godwin's Law has also been (perhaps excessively explanatorily)
reformulated in the Net.Legends FAQ as "Usenet Rule #4":

Any off-topic mention of Hitler or Nazis will doom the thread it is
mentioned in to an irrelevant and off-topic end very soon; every thread
on UseNet has a constantly-increasing probability to contain
such a mention.

thebrassthief · 05-18-2007

I saw this happen on the World of Warcraft forums. It laughed like hell when a mod came in and said "THIS THREAD WAS JUST GODWIN'D! THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT!".

MRiGnS · 05-18-2007

Well the most bothering part in using the terms nazi and hitler in the web is using them for almost everything bad.

And this is a really serious problem imho because people forget who the nazis really were and what they have done.

If people forget that, history may repeat itself.

robert98374 · 05-27-2007

When i think of hitler theres a 2 sided coin, on one side he took his county out of a great depression and gave the country something to strive for. THe other side of the coin is where he placed the blame and where he took it out

modestmelody · 05-27-2007

Godwin's Law is as real as any law of physics.

fuscia · 05-27-2007

i'm hooked on this godwin shit. i've been going all over the internet posting pics of the naked leni riefenstahl to all my old threads.

modestmelody · 06-03-2007

xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe

chiefbutz · 06-03-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by modestmelody

xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe

Nice. This is something that I have never heard of. It is kind of interesting, and I guess I can see where it can come into play. Sort of cool.

matthew · 06-04-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by modestmelody

xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe

lol!

05-17-2007	#1 (permalink)
matthew Eligible for a custom title Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 858	What is Godwin's Law? (or, why can't I mention the Nazis and get away with it?) Back in the early 1990s a guy named Mike Godwin proposed on Usenet, the place to chat and discuss things like we do here, that as internet discussions become longer (and more heated), the probability of a comparison to the Nazis or Hitler approaches one. This law says nothing about whether the comparison is apt or not, merely that it becomes more likely to occur the longer the discussion continues. There is a long standing tradition on the internet that once this comparison has been made, all rational discussion has ended and the thread is essentially finished...there's no point in trying to continue the conversation from that point forward. The tradition also states that the person who makes the comparison automatically loses the argument. Period. More here: Godwin's Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Your comments?

05-17-2007	#2 (permalink)
matthew Eligible for a custom title Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 858	Re: What is Godwin's Law? (or, why can't I mention the Nazis and get away with it?) Oh, I forgot to mention. An intentional invoking of the Nazis or Hitler for the purposes of ending a thread does not count. That simply makes someone a meanie.

05-18-2007	#4 (permalink)
thebrassthief Commentator Join Date: May 2007 Location: A box somewhere in Colorado... Posts: 64	Re: What is Godwin's Law? (or, why can't I mention the Nazis and get away with it?) I saw this happen on the World of Warcraft forums. It laughed like hell when a mod came in and said "THIS THREAD WAS JUST GODWIN'D! THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT!".

05-18-2007	#5 (permalink)
MRiGnS the wicked one Join Date: May 2007 Location: Saarbrücken, Germany Posts: 1,886	Re: What is Godwin's Law? (or, why can't I mention the Nazis and get away with it?) Well the most bothering part in using the terms nazi and hitler in the web is using them for almost everything bad. And this is a really serious problem imho because people forget who the nazis really were and what they have done. If people forget that, history may repeat itself.
	私は愛の天使です (I) Don't smoke (I) Don't drink (I) Don't fuck At least I can fucking think

05-27-2007	#7 (permalink)
modestmelody Discussion starter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Providence, RI/Long Island, NY Posts: 88	Re: What is Godwin's Law? (or, why can't I mention the Nazis and get away with it?) Godwin's Law is as real as any law of physics.
	--Jason Becker Ubuntu = happiness Brown Univ. Class of 2009

05-27-2007	#8 (permalink)
fuscia .... Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 558	Re: What is Godwin's Law? (or, why can't I mention the Nazis and get away with it?) i'm hooked on this godwin shit. i've been going all over the internet posting pics of the naked leni riefenstahl to all my old threads.
fuscia .... Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 558

06-03-2007	#9 (permalink)
modestmelody Discussion starter Join Date: May 2007 Location: Providence, RI/Long Island, NY Posts: 88	Re: What is Godwin's Law? (or, why can't I mention the Nazis and get away with it?) xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe
	--Jason Becker Ubuntu = happiness Brown Univ. Class of 2009