I have been told that Automatix breaks things, but I did not experience breakage the few times I used it. Still, I am new to Ubuntu and if a long-time user tells me that something will cause breakage, I tend to believe them.

That said, I have seen what I consider to be bad advice coming out of some of the Ubuntu IRC channels. For example, I was more or less flamed because I enable root when I install a Linux distribution that has it disabled by default. It is very inconvenient for me to have the root account disabled. It's like someone telling to never use a knife. You just have to know which tool to use and when to use it. So if you feel comfortable using Automatix, go ahead and use it, keeping in mind that it might cause some breakage. I would not use it to update parts of my system that are essential to the system.

One thing that I wish someone would fix is the APT dialog that tells the user that certain packages are not needed and can be removed, but this has not been fixed and it broke my system three times when I first installed kubuntu. After the third time, I realized that saying YES to autoremoving packages is a bad thing.

I think Automatix works fine. When I used it, it didn't seem to me that anything had become broken. I seriously found it very stable and enjoyable to use.


j.miller565

i just used it to install java (for gcaldaemon) and it did the job just fine...

not a single problem coming up...

Why does anyone need helper scripts anyway. I tried Automatix and EasyUbuntu and the script program that is supposed to help install your video card drivers. Each time I ended up with something messed up such as X wouldn't start, it would take at least 5 min to fully start up, I still couldn't play the movie I wanted to because the software wasn't installed, etc. (not all at once)

For me, it was much easier to take a day or so and learn what all of the programs I wanted to use were and simply DIY. ubuntuforums.org and especially ubuntuguide.org were the biggest help to get me started. Now I don't have to rely on scripts anymore and, since I've learned it, I can just do it myself.

Helper scripts vs. figuring it out yourself is just like the "feed a man a fish" cliché IMHO....

For what it's worth, I agree with you completely.

Some people think differently, though, and in a free software movement there is room for us all.

Because for completely new users, there's a lot too learn at once. I used ax when I started using ubuntu, it was a life saver. When you install the nvidia driver with ax, at least in earlier versions you where told about how to restore your xorg.conf if something went wrong.

How would you like to install all the different fonts you can install with ax manually... It would take a really long time.

I guess it just boils down to quarrel between some users at the ubuntuforums and the main developer, not going to mention names.

They really have a problem settling their differences with the developer. I don't think it's a reason to continue bashing ax. He is not the only developer. I think it's quite childish.

He made a lot of good guides at the forums. We need all the people that know their way around linux and ubuntu. (we have to be ready for all the new users we are getting)

new users find it easier,a lot of people who come from windows have a lot of trouble installing things.i know i did,or they dont want to learn how to(yes not everyone wants to be a geek they just want a working computer.)
a couple of my friends are like that ,they are using ubuntu but i had to install it and install everthing.and if it goes wrong i have to fix it

i can do it my self but hey i may just be a tad lazy..
on a fresh install i find it just so easy to install automatix tick everything i want to install hit go,
i can then go up the back paddock fix a fence or two ,move the cows or the sheep.
and when i get back it is ready to go..yep thats the way to do it...

we are getting a little off track here it is not about if i should use it,i have and do since breezy.
a lot of people say it breaks things,so i am just asking how.?

i dont post on the ubuntu forums i have a read now and again (well most days)and i see a lot of automatix bashing and not a lot of how and why.
now i could not ask this on the ubuntu forum so that is why i am asking here..

i thank all that have responded
kind regards
goofy

Just because I know how to do it, doesn't mean I enjoy or want to do it

I use Nvidia video drivers, so all I had to do was 'apt-get install nvidia-glx'. I think most of the people who had problems with their driver installations were using other methods of installing the drivers.

I have used automatix with different versions of Ubuntu and have really liked it because it saves a lot of time. I have never witnessed it breaking anything. When installing some third party apps / restricted drivers you run the risk of problems with kernel upgrades whether you use automatix or install them by hand. I personally would like to hear less criticism about it. For people who don't like it fine. Don't use it. There is no need for little "campaigns" against it.

i actually agree with you there..if instead of the criticism and the do not use,just politly direct them to the automatix forum.
from what i read there arnieboy(and the others cant remember there names) looks after them well.and solves any problems they may be having pretty quick..

and he even helps them with there ubuntu problems.shame it does not go both ways..

Matthew, to blame the controversy surrounding Automatix on Arnie isn't really fair, nor completely true. Back when I was a staff member on mod-free (that word was verboten on UF, but I think it's okay here), Arnie (and mstlyevil, too) were extremely helpful with helping anyone with any Automatix problems, and it's only when people threw the "Automatix breaks everything on your system, so you'll never be able to use it again" misconceptions about that Arnie became defensive of a project he's spent countless thousands of pro bono man-hours producing.

To blame the Automatix controversies purely on Arnie is misguided.

On the Automatix and mod-free forums what you describe may be completely accurate. Since I was never seriously active on either, I'm not qualified to comment. By the way, I do know mstlyevil and I think he is a great guy who has done a marvelous job representing the project. Again, I have no significant issues with the helper script itself. I think it has improved greatly over time, although I have no personal need for it (or anything similar). If some people like using it, they are free to do so with my blessing, for what that is worth.

I don't think blaming the controversy on Arnieboy is misguided at all. On the Ubuntu Forums, Arnieboy has alternated between being extremely helpful and being a raving, maniacal, paranoid, and abusive person who displayed aggressive and antisocial tendencies.

It would be extremely simple to provide examples of either, but this is really an old story, going back to one of the original versions when he first released it under the GPL. There was a big, dramatic, ugly ruckus that erupted from some misunderstandings in that process. To be honest, though, I'm just tired of talking about it. I'm tired of all the drama and controversy that seems to follow this project and its developer.

There are countless other developers who have endured significantly more criticism of their projects who have not reacted in similar fashion. Criticism is often based on opinion and can easily be wrong, misplaced, or baseless and even cruel. How you deal with that criticism says far more about you as a person than how you deal with praise or even the quality of your project.

I've read so many threads on Automatix, that I thought I'd skip this one, but I went ahead and read it anyway. Like all the others, they always boil down to the personalities of the various players involved.

Personally, I don't use Automatix, but I know others who do, they like the convenience, and are great fans.

I think this whole Linux thing is about choice, isn't it? To each their own I say. The whole discussion is a non-starter for me, and I'm going to kick myself in the ass, if I ever read one of these threads again.

+1

Let's both bow out...

I haven't been around to witness the flamewars, but I can see that just mentioning Automatix can cause a heated discussion :/

i go to the ubuntu web site about once a day to have a read,just one of the many i browse and read i have seen the wars,

that is why i asked here why they say it breaks things and to offer solid proof.
but i have not achieved that it seems no one actually wants to state why they say it breaks things.

thats all this thread was supposed to be about..

GooFy

Well most of the controversy "started" because of its developer's outspoken nature. For those who don't know, it started out because of a licensing issue. There was a dispute over whether or not Automatix at the time was under GPL or not. The controversy thereafter was because Automatix used --force-yes and enabled your root account. Something many of the die hard ubuntu devs saw as a "no no". While this has been corrected, it did not repair the relationship between much of the Official Ubuntu Proper and the Automatix team.

It has been said in the past by many an Ubuntu Developer, that if Arnieboy made himself more accessible to them, they might actually be willing to work with him. However, No member of the AX development staff interact on the mailing list. They dint file bug reports on Launchpad either. They dint interact with any of the community (IRC or otherwise), save themselves. No code has been contributed on Launchpad by the AX team (the last commit was 46 weeks ago on the old automatix team that was once there, but is no longer, nor is it active). No member of the AX team has been to a UDS (Ubuntu Developer Summit). From my understanding some form of sponsorship was offered to attend (paid room, food, and stay), but has never been taken. A sign back to the Ubuntu proper an unwillingness to help or contribute, thus much of their own opinion about Automatix comes to negativity.

That be said, the relationship that AX shares with Technalign already more ostracizes Automatix from the Ubuntu Proper even more. This is even more curious to most of the Ubuntu Proper because of Technalign's open standing relationship with Mepis, the distribution that Technalign uses to base its distro of Linux on (TAPioneer, et al.). As such much of the Mepis community reacts much the same way that the Ubuntu community does in regards to Automatix. Many of its users find Automatix nothing more than a helper script that is as easily negated by the use of newer features in each new release, as is similar with such Ubuntu releases.

Much of the discussion on the UF about Automatix is halted merely based on the Official Stance AX has a whole. Initially the Techboard (grouped with Mark, and a few other high end devs and members of Canonical) ruled that AX code was unsuitable for integration into Ubuntu itself. As such it was to go unsupported by the Official proper. Most of the users on the IRC side (Seveas specifically) took a very outward approach to this stance. Mere mention of the name Automatix in the #ubuntu irc channel bred many bad words and distasteful comments. Whether or not the community was to support the application or not was still a "grey" area. Its not officially supported, ergo some users feel that it shouldnt be supported as a whole, community or otherwise. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen. This has lead to numerous firefights over the recent times. Users discourage its use (some staff included), and other users encourage its use. The freedom of speech over the issue of whether or not to support automatix has been at the root of the issue, and more than one user has expressed their rights to have free speech over the issue (both staffer and user alike), just as AX supporters have requested the right to have the same free speech.

One might easily say its been an issue of who took a punch first. Has the community damaged the situation with AX and itself , in regards to Ubuntu? Yep, Im sure. Has AX and its supporters contributed to just as much drama and BS in this manner? Most definitely.

FTR, I was new too when I tried those programs. I guess that there are people who don't care as long as they can browse the web and listen to mp3s shows Linux is picking up people from the Windows side of things too

That's not a bad way of doing it, if the helper script programs work for you. I tend to make really simple install scripts so that I can reproduce my setup quickly on a new computer. It works for me and I don't get any unnecessary stuff :shrug:.

I can't say how it breaks things. I just know that it did for me. I don't care about the politics surrounding this script/program, but I would assume that the majority of people don't have any problems since it's so popular...

thank you compiledkernel.

that has given me a fuller understanding of what is going on.at ubuntu(now i will have to join automatix site and get the other side of the story)..

but as you say freedom of speech..it is what i have been hinting at if one side can bag automatix then surely the supporters can defend it..

so if the baging is stopped and any queries asked are politly redirected to the automatix site.. would this not be better than all the who har..

so instead of dont use it it breaks things,it becomes please go to the automatix web forum for support here is the link,,

and give infractions for both sides breeching this this war will die out sooner than later..

kind regards
Goofy