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1peter318 · 05-20-2007

While it is true that intellectual arguments by themselves show little fruit in conversion of unbelievers, they are often necessary as supplementation to the greater "argument" of heart which everyone who becomes a true Biblical believer in Christ is persuaded by, which brings them to account Christ worthy of the repentance and faith which results in true conversion and promised changes that result. That "argument" ultimately comes from the Holy Spirit working in the soul of a person in such a way that they see their need for a savior, and hearing the truth that is in Jesus - by one who has realized His resurrection power - they are moved to choose light over darkness, to want Christ over sin in their heart, and seek Him for salvation, asking Him in faith to be their Lord and Savior.

This in turn, if done out of a broken heart and contrite but trusting spirit (Ps. 34:18), results in the strongest evidence for the existence of the resurrected Christ, that of the realization of changes in heart and life, often without any additional external causes, and which correspond to the claims of the Lord Jesus and are contingent upon faith and obedience to Him. While other religions or psychology can present some evidence of a degree of such changes, those typically realized by true born again converts are unique both in their evidential cause and manner.

An objective and sincere examination of the lives of faithful converts in strong evangelical churches (like many Calvary chapel's perhaps), of both the day and years before they turned to Jesus and the day and years after (and observed by others who knew them), will reveal changes in hearts and lives that ultimately defy naturalistic causes. I say this after having been "saved" in 1977, and seeing both the immediate and often times dramatic and long term effects of truly turning to the Lord Jesus, as well as the consequences of forsaking that relationship, both in myself and others.

Here a a few links relative to the above.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/boston...Evangelist.mp3 (download - 30 min secular interview of a man i personally know who is a real believer)
http://www.teenchallengegaintl.com/t...ults.htmlwould
http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/...px?WT.svl=menu
http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documen...f_Eternity.wmv (Very Good! A Glimpse of Eternity download - 200mb)
To Hell and Back, a study of NDE/OBE Near Death Experiences by Dr. Rawlings - Google Video (To Hell and Back testimony)
http://ffmp3.com/childrens/cd2/media/avif.rm (Calvary chapel story download)

05-20-2007	#2 (permalink)
1peter318 Be gentle, newcomer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2	Re: Effectiveness of God exists arguments While it is true that intellectual arguments by themselves show little fruit in conversion of unbelievers, they are often necessary as supplementation to the greater "argument" of heart which everyone who becomes a true Biblical believer in Christ is persuaded by, which brings them to account Christ worthy of the repentance and faith which results in true conversion and promised changes that result. That "argument" ultimately comes from the Holy Spirit working in the soul of a person in such a way that they see their need for a savior, and hearing the truth that is in Jesus - by one who has realized His resurrection power - they are moved to choose light over darkness, to want Christ over sin in their heart, and seek Him for salvation, asking Him in faith to be their Lord and Savior. This in turn, if done out of a broken heart and contrite but trusting spirit (Ps. 34:18), results in the strongest evidence for the existence of the resurrected Christ, that of the realization of changes in heart and life, often without any additional external causes, and which correspond to the claims of the Lord Jesus and are contingent upon faith and obedience to Him. While other religions or psychology can present some evidence of a degree of such changes, those typically realized by true born again converts are unique both in their evidential cause and manner. An objective and sincere examination of the lives of faithful converts in strong evangelical churches (like many Calvary chapel's perhaps), of both the day and years before they turned to Jesus and the day and years after (and observed by others who knew them), will reveal changes in hearts and lives that ultimately defy naturalistic causes. I say this after having been "saved" in 1977, and seeing both the immediate and often times dramatic and long term effects of truly turning to the Lord Jesus, as well as the consequences of forsaking that relationship, both in myself and others. Here a a few links relative to the above. http://media.libsyn.com/media/boston...Evangelist.mp3 (download - 30 min secular interview of a man i personally know who is a real believer) http://www.teenchallengegaintl.com/t...ults.htmlwould http://www.cbn.com/700club/features/...px?WT.svl=menu http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documen...f_Eternity.wmv (Very Good! A Glimpse of Eternity download - 200mb) To Hell and Back, a study of NDE/OBE Near Death Experiences by Dr. Rawlings - Google Video (To Hell and Back testimony) http://ffmp3.com/childrens/cd2/media/avif.rm (Calvary chapel story download) Last edited by 1peter318 : 05-20-2007 at 11:39 AM.