I've got to agree with MRiGnS here. Seeker, you have absolutely
NO clue what you're talking about. You don't understand any science at all, nor have you ostensibly bothered to try to educate yourself. Ignorance, superfluity thereof.
You never even bothered to respond to anything I wrote in my first post. Rather, you simply insulted my scientific qualifications (I'd love to see your qualifications, by the way) and then asked me to explain the origin of life from simple molecules all the way through to now. Spinning it around shows me that you were unable to answer my original post, so instead you through a complex question in my direction.
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Originally Posted by seekermeister If you fail to see how the origin of life and evolution tie together, then I won't even try to show you. However, it really doesn't matter, because I simply chose the area that I thought would be most simple. Perhaps you would like to accept my invitation expound on it. |
Nope. MRiGnS is right. Evolution only deals with how life evolved to its current complexity from simple non-living matter. The discipline which studies how the first living cells appeared is called
abiogenesis. It is interested in how non-living molecules can polymerise and develop into a functioning cell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekermeister I am being argumentative? I made a post that was directed at no one in particular, about a paradigm that applies to any aspect of this discussion, and only received a tirade from Big Dave, making alot of unfounded assertions, spiced with derogatory remarks. What posts that I have made since were simply responses to those that followed. One thing that I never do is to allow anyone to dictate the manner of my responses. If you had been around forums much, you would know that threads naturally evolve and do not necessarily remained focus on just one aspect of any subject. |
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Originally Posted by seekermeister Since you consider yourself such an expert on scientific principles, it should be simple for you to explain exactly how the theory of evolution is founded. I don't mean any wordy generalities, but a black and white, step by step explanation, so that we might be illuminated by your brilliance. Show us why this daydream should be considered fact. BTW, no links, just put it in your own words. |
I would be surprised if you would understand this sort of science. It is not a daydream; religion is the daydream. Science has real empirical (look it up, don't ask) and irrefutable evidence to back it up. You're being so hypocritical here, it's unreal.
Anyway, the origin of life...
There simply is no single theory as to how life developed. It's such a complex process, that many hypotheses have been raised. To quote Wikipedia, these are some of the best theories:
- Plausible pre-biotic conditions result in the creation of certain basic small molecules (monomers) of life, such as amino acids. This was demonstrated in the Miller-Urey experiment by Stanley L. Miller and Harold C. Urey in 1953.
- Phospholipids (of an appropriate length) can spontaneously form lipid bilayers, a basic component of the cell membrane.
- The polymerization of nucleotides into random RNA molecules might have resulted in self-replicating ribozymes (RNA world hypothesis).
- Selection pressures for catalytic efficiency and diversity result in ribozymes which catalyse peptidyl transfer (hence formation of small proteins), since oligopeptides complex with RNA to form better catalysts. Thus the first ribosome is born, and protein synthesis becomes more prevalent.
- Proteins outcompete ribozymes in catalytic ability, and therefore become the dominant biopolymer. Nucleic acids are restricted to predominantly genomic use.
The most popular theory is a mixture between #1 and #2 in that list.
In 1953, there was an experiment carried out by two scientists which is now known as the Miller-Urey experiment. They put some of the simplest chemical compounds in a flask. The compounds used were water, ammonia, methane and hydrogen gas. These compounds were exposed to an electrical spark from an electrode in the flask, designed to simulate a bolt of lightning. Within a week, the compounds had reacted and formed more complex molecules, including simple amino acids such as glycine.
Two or more amino acids can react and form a peptide bond between themselves - a process called polymerisation - to form a protein molecule. Proteins are the so-called "building blocks of life"; every organism is at least partly made up by proteins.
Other molecules which can be formed in similar reactions are nucleic acids. If nucleic acids are joined on a ribose-phosphate backbone structure (inorganic phosphate ions are also simple compounds which would have been present before life on earth evolved), they would produce simple RNA strands. RNA is a simpler form of DNA, which is used as genetic code in most organisms around today. RNA has been found to be able to, in rare circumstances, be able to self-replicate itself into more identical RNA strands when its composite molecules are present in its surroundings. (RNA transcription happens inside every nucleus-containing cell in the human body (the exception being red blood cells), albeit with more complex procedures involved.)
A cell membrane - the material surrounding cells - is composed of two layers of a substance called phospholipid. This is called the phospholipid bilayer. A phospholipid molecule is a long, thin molecules with an aptly-named "head" end and "tail" end. The "head" end is composed of a phosphate ion, and the "tail" end is comprised of a chain of lipid (fat) molecules. These two ends have diametrical affinities for water. The phosphate "head" is hydrophilic - it "likes" to be in the presence of water. The lipid "tail" is hydrophobic - it repels from water. Phospholipids tend to form a "bubble" when they are in water, as the double layer of phospholipids has the phosphate end pointing out into the surrounding water on the outer layer, and the phosphate end pointing into the cytoplasm (internal cell fluid) on the inner layer. This is how a cell membrane is formed. (Take a sample of one of the cells in your body and look at it under a microscope. You yourself have cell membranes surrounding all of your internal cells, so you can take a look for yourself. You cannot deny the presence of a phospholipid bilayer cell membrane.)
Here's a diagram of a phospholipid bilayer. You can clearly see the two phospholipid molecules with their "head" ends pointing into the water, and the "tail" ends inside:
When these materials come together, they are able to form a simple prokaryotic (without a nucleus) cell. These cells have the ability to reproduce asexually (not requiring a partner, they just split) through a process called mitosis.
As cells have gotten more advanced after living matter formed, they began to develop different genetic characteristics. They were able to differentiate and develop new traits and features of themselves. Some developed nuclei (the place where the genetic information, DNA, is stored in a cell), making a new type of cell called a eukaryote. As cells begin to reproduce to make a larger number of themselves, they incur random genetic mutations. These can, in some instances, produce favourable traits in the offspring organism - in other words, it can survive better in its environment.
Organisms which are better able to cope better in a particular environment will have a higher chance of survival compared with organisms without this favourable trait. This means that the adapted organism will survive and pass on its genetics to its offspring, whilst the non-adapted organism will gradually die out, until its unfavourable genes are removed from the gene pool. This is a process called
natural selection.
Natural selection powers evolution. Organisms develop new characteristics, and if they are good traits, the organism will survive and reproduce. If it is a bad trait, the organism will die and the unfavourable gene will be removed from the gene pool. This is evolution at work. Over the past 4.4 billion years or so, this process has been occurring. Gradually, organisms have become more complex up to the point whereby we have humans and many other complex mammals on earth. It is possible.
Unfortunately, since records have begun, humans have always been trying to explain how they got here. The first was religion. Humans found that the
easiest and most
convenient was to propose that a guy up somewhere in the sky created the world, and wrote a book about it. This also has another added benefit: if you propose that this guy, aptly named "God," was omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient, a form of "control of the masses" could be invented. A heaven and hell - if you behave, you have eternal life, if you don't, you go to hell to suffer for eternity. This has held back the progression of human civilisation for decades.
Now, we have science. We can actually do experiments and determine things that just a few hundred years ago would have been unthinkable. We understand much of the inner workings of the human body; if you become ill, we can make you better. We have achieved amazing engineering feats; we can put a man on the moon, and have invented aircraft which can travel faster than the speed of sound, rise several miles into the air, and travel for thousands of nautical miles. Science has achieved much in the past century; it is the
only system which human beings have ever entrusted their life with (every time you sit in an aircraft, every time you go into hospital).
So, in conclusion, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. If you think science is still an abomination and is completely useless, I expect from you:
1) A complete scientific rebuttal to
everything I have written. Don't spare any information, as I'm smart enough to understand.
2) A well-reasoned, knowledgeable essay on why religion is greater than science.
Until then, don't continue to snipe at people for not believing something with no evidence to ensure its veracity. If you can't produce what I asked for above, then STFU. I don't want to hear from you again until you can produce what I asked for above.
Have a nice day.