You two are taking what voice says to extremes in that 'illusion' is not real, when any illusion can be as real as anything else. Your illusion is your frame of reference and the myths or beliefs you accept as real.

Everything is an illusion to the extent it is a creation of ones will. Many follow along with the will of the majority, but it is still an illusion.

The three of you are intelligent people. Don't allow your frustration to lower the level of your dialogue, just take a break and gather your thoughts if you need to. You are all doing great, and I am learning lots from this thread. Thanks for the education..