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anv · 06-24-2007

actually I know many jews who believe in Yeshua (Jesus Christ)

****Is this mentioned in Old testament or does this lie more in folklore and heritage wisdom of jewsih people, that it has to be human and not living God and human together among us?

It was sharply pointed from one writer earlier of this seed of woman, from Genesis 3

Also as I searched from bible the term of politic* none were found. Again meaning of words and their origin, and which connotations they have, trying to show out that idea is not from bible that says that Gods Yeshua should be just man and not also God together, and preciously if watching more of book of Isaiah and chapter 11 the whole chapter tells that these magnificent works which He is doing are at least on my scale quite amazing for human being
spoken of this righteousness front of God which is measured by full filling the law, and that no one in sight of God is righteous.

Ps 53:2 God looks down from heaven on the children of men,To see if there are any who understood,Who seek after God. 3.Every one of them has gone back.They have become filthy together.
There is no one who does good, no, not one.

even the concept righteousness in front of law (meaning not to be condemned) is achieved after following law or reconciling mistakes, through different sin offers, by better words with blood offer. If it would be possible for us to be perfect front of Law without offerings why God would have given this offer institution,to be cruel? or merciful?

1.Samuel 15:22 Samuel said, Has Yahweh as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of Yahweh? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams

so even we have those iniquities and sins which has to be reconciled, by blood offer. Leviticus 8:15 , 17:11 So we are not perfect by ourself, our nature is, corrupted after fall in sin. even created once as image of God. Also DAvid asking help against sin:

psalm 19:13 "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins ; Let them not have dominion over me: Then shall I be upright, And I shall be clear from great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in thy sight, O Jehovah, my rock, and my redeemer.

So only God is perfect in front of the law by that way that He don't need offer to cover His sins, he don't sin, so shortly drawn it has to be God, or better said Redeemer to whom all scripts of offers and reconciliation the whole torah itself points to, the one who takes away those sins from His people, who makes himself as sin offer without a spot.

*** ps.2:6 “Yet I have set my king on my holy hill of Zion.7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee.
----------------------------------------------------

To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah. "

*** I disagree that father of Jesus has to be human being, it would be so if the tribe of Judah would be just genetic and national institution, not yet referring even to pagan christians and concept of spiritual Isral of all believers of Christ, but referring to old testamentic concept of spiritual nation, tribe of Yahwe, His own nation, the chosen one among all other nations and Him as the Father of them***

”The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!"

**** He who is Jesus father is real Father of all tribes of Israel, He is the father of all creation and humankind. (in addition of this I have heard that if father is not jew and mother is jew child be jew, but not opposite, this is just assumption where I don't have better knowledge)****
-------------------------------------------------------

"The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy."

**** Torah is Gods given law it is not guide as Talmud is, which is not straight given by God and difference between these two books are huge. Another is from divine source and another source is not Godly even it holds parts of wisdom it still is not directly the given will of God. + in addition of this is that Jesus never said that we should cast away the law. because law is perfect and it is will of God, God has given law that it would show His will, referring to earlier sitate from psalm 53 that When God watches us He haven't found anyone in His sight who would be righteous, that it would be visible that no one else than God is perfect, that everyone needs offer to be purified, ****

------------------------------------------------------

Finally Isaiah 53:

1 Who has believed our message? and to whom has the arm of Yahweh been revealed? 2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he has no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He was despised, and rejected by men; a man of suffering, and acquainted with disease: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we didn’t respect him. 4 Surely he has borne our sickness, and carried our suffering; yet we considered him plagued, struck by God, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought our peace was on him; and by his wounds we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he didn’t open his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is mute, so he didn’t open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the disobedience of my people to whom the stroke was due? 9 They made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Yahweh shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

06-24-2007	#15 (permalink)
anv Just getting started Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5	Re: Why Jews do NOT believe in Jesus. actually I know many jews who believe in Yeshua (Jesus Christ) ***Is this mentioned in Old testament or does this lie more in folklore and heritage wisdom of jewsih people, that it has to be human and not living God and human together among us? It was sharply pointed from one writer earlier of this seed of woman, from Genesis 3 Also as I searched from bible the term of politic none were found. Again meaning of words and their origin, and which connotations they have, trying to show out that idea is not from bible that says that Gods Yeshua should be just man and not also God together, and preciously if watching more of book of Isaiah and chapter 11 the whole chapter tells that these magnificent works which He is doing are at least on my scale quite amazing for human being spoken of this righteousness front of God which is measured by full filling the law, and that no one in sight of God is righteous. Ps 53:2 God looks down from heaven on the children of men,To see if there are any who understood,Who seek after God. 3.Every one of them has gone back.They have become filthy together. There is no one who does good, no, not one. even the concept righteousness in front of law (meaning not to be condemned) is achieved after following law or reconciling mistakes, through different sin offers, by better words with blood offer. If it would be possible for us to be perfect front of Law without offerings why God would have given this offer institution,to be cruel? or merciful? 1.Samuel 15:22 Samuel said, Has Yahweh as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of Yahweh? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams so even we have those iniquities and sins which has to be reconciled, by blood offer. Leviticus 8:15 , 17:11 So we are not perfect by ourself, our nature is, corrupted after fall in sin. even created once as image of God. Also DAvid asking help against sin: psalm 19:13 "Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins ; Let them not have dominion over me: Then shall I be upright, And I shall be clear from great transgression. 14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in thy sight, O Jehovah, my rock, and my redeemer. So only God is perfect in front of the law by that way that He don't need offer to cover His sins, he don't sin, so shortly drawn it has to be God, or better said Redeemer to whom all scripts of offers and reconciliation the whole torah itself points to, the one who takes away those sins from His people, who makes himself as sin offer without a spot. * ps.2:6 “Yet I have set my king on my holy hill of Zion.7 I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee. ---------------------------------------------------- To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah. " * I disagree that father of Jesus has to be human being, it would be so if the tribe of Judah would be just genetic and national institution, not yet referring even to pagan christians and concept of spiritual Isral of all believers of Christ, but referring to old testamentic concept of spiritual nation, tribe of Yahwe, His own nation, the chosen one among all other nations and Him as the Father of them* ”The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!" He who is Jesus father is real Father of all tribes of Israel, He is the father of all creation and humankind. (in addition of this I have heard that if father is not jew and mother is jew child be jew, but not opposite, this is just assumption where I don't have better knowledge) ------------------------------------------------------- "The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy." Torah is Gods given law it is not guide as Talmud is, which is not straight given by God and difference between these two books are huge. Another is from divine source and another source is not Godly even it holds parts of wisdom it still is not directly the given will of God. + in addition of this is that Jesus never said that we should cast away the law. because law is perfect and it is will of God, God has given law that it would show His will, referring to earlier sitate from psalm 53 that When God watches us He haven't found anyone in His sight who would be righteous, that it would be visible that no one else than God is perfect, that everyone needs offer to be purified, ** ------------------------------------------------------ Finally Isaiah 53: 1 Who has believed our message? and to whom has the arm of Yahweh been revealed? 2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he has no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He was despised, and rejected by men; a man of suffering, and acquainted with disease: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we didn’t respect him. 4 Surely he has borne our sickness, and carried our suffering; yet we considered him plagued, struck by God, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought our peace was on him; and by his wounds we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; everyone has turned to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he didn’t open his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is mute, so he didn’t open his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the disobedience of my people to whom the stroke was due? 9 They made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him; he has put him to grief: when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Yahweh shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
anv Just getting started Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5