I will try freshing things up a little. I tried to find where things were mentioned. (I might use this(updated) as a thread-starter if it still goes nowhere
)
It already was the idea to talk about things bottom-up, starting from axioms #24. I propose:
- defining an axiom any assumption. Anyone can assume any set of axioms (s)he believes do not contradict.
- That we assume that our reasoning can actually restrict what is true, based on axioms. (although possibly the result might be subjective, as was agrued #3,4)
- That we agree to disagree, when a discussion takes to long, find common ground, rather then fight!
- Not focussing on what sets of axioms we ourselves like too much, rather seeing what is out there.
It will be biased a little. Here are axioms:
General axioms:
- Existence exists #1
- Things we deal with have a consistent behavior. #1
- A consciousness is some thing that perceives things. #1
World-axioms:
- The consistent-behavior-things interact.
- external world, one of the things of the consistent-behavior-thing is an external world. All Conciousnesses are (at least in a way) external to this. #2
On this world axioms like "physics uniformity" axioms apply. (could say that consistent-behavior-things only interact with the external-world)
- Non-external world, assuming only the world exists, so everything is intrinsically non-external to this.
An additional axiom assumes that abstractions can be made to make things with a consistent behavior like said above. (this is sort-of the opposite approach as the above) #48 (my interpretation)
- One of the consciousness makes the world. (like bnonn seems to believe is absolute in thread "What is faith"), #22
About the (non) external world:
- Non-determinism (not sure if we need it #18)
- Determinism
- Uniformity of physics.
(Probably much to say, do not know much philosophy of physics.)
Dealing-with-world-axioms: (similar to #2)
- Some consciousnesses(including us) can deliberately:
- In case of external world, it either can affect all other things, or only the external world, and other things indirectly via that.
- In case of non-external world it can affect the world and other things since it is all part of the non-external world.
- Some consciousnessess(including us) can get representative information of other things. (again consider different worldviews) #5
- Some consciousnessess(including us) can get an idea of the effects of their actions. (deliberate affecting)
Ethics axioms, or perhaps, goals: (I call them axioms, that what to do(and subgoals) can be 'derived' from what you want.)
Following two have a realism and non-realism side(wikipedia for ethics), realism is that underlying measures are absolute.
- There is a good(measure). (absolute good on realism side) #5,#20
- (eh, my own, said that i wouldnt start without being asked but

#3,#18,#29
- There is a feel-good(measure, called want earlier) for things (or slightly stronger: conscious things)
- There is a measure of weight for these things. (although you could say consciousness has multiple levels, and that is the weight, making it an definition)
- goal is to increase average feel-good, based on measure of weight.
Any others, in any category? Would like even more structure to ethics

, more specific what to do.
On the realism side, the question is how to determine the objective measures. An answer for both, is not to answer, and say you use your associations. For the second, you can see what consciousnesses/things do, when given freedoms, and assume that is makes them feel-good. The non-realism(or, since we dont know, the realism too?) side seems to mean that the first means that you do whatever you wish, and the second might say to someone that pain and hurt is feel-good. (utabintarbo,SigmaX helped showing that 'hole' but i still thing ethic-axioms usefull, but what do others think of it? reasonable?)
I reckon that the second brings much more 'structure' in what is good. (what do you think? #33)
Earlier summary: #24 Note that it is very biased<edit>refering to my own summary</edit>, feel free to mention anything i missed, or criticise constructively.
PS damn took more time then expected, but i find these things cool.