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But you conceded my very point. To overview what you are disputing (in case you didn't actually read what I wrote) is that the law of causality. That things do not come into existence uncaused. A cause does not necessarily have to be a "someone" as you seem to be caught up on. You say that the tide brought it naturally. The tide is the cause. I think you are over thinking what I am saying. This is the very foundation of all your thoughts and all of science. When something happens, we ask why? Not shrug and say it just happened, caused by nothing. That is all I am saying for that
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i was not disputing cause and effect, i was disputing that things had to have a conscious cause, which is what you seemed to be implying, and therefore the universe does not need a conscious cause which a god would surely be.
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That is not what the second law of thermodynamics says. It says that closed systems tend towards equilibrium. That everything in a closed system will eventually balance out. The fact that we haven't yet balanced out shows us that the universe has a finite age - it hasn't been around forever otherwise it would have balanced out already.
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the second law of thermodynamics 'equilibrium' refers to energy and mass though, indeed our universe does have a finite age, (estimated to be 15 billion years so far) so balancing out hasn't happened yet, im not sure what you were suggesting with that point, the fact that our universe may turn out to be roughly flat as the current evidence indicates does not rule out a big crunch, which can be considered hypothetically when the scale distance between all atoms becomes 0 again. There would be a Big Crunch even if the total density was even slightly over critical. This hasn't at all been ruled out, however i will concede that the theories for one at the moment do look slightly shaky, but i fear were getting off topic. The original point about the need for god to be the cause of the universe is the logical "argument from ignorance" just because we cant yet tell what the cause of the universe is, theres no evidence to suspect it was a conscious force/being, any more than to suspect a wave throwing a rock on a beach is a conscious force.
ive gone on longer than i was expecting but i feel ive expressed myself.