Join the Discussion - View Single Post

Moniker42 · 05-12-2007

Umm... you guys' posts are too long to read, but by the looks of it you've been arguing about the cosmological/first cause argument?

So the cosmological argument is:
1. Everything has a cause
2. A casual chain cannot go on forever
3. If you go all the way back to the beginning of the universe, something must have cause that
4. That cause must be God

However there are several arguments that make this an extremely weak and unconvincing argument for the existence of the Western God (benevolent, omnipotent, omnipresent etc).
Why does it have to be God? Why not a completely different kind of God or being?
Why can a causal chain not go on forever?
What causes God?

To quote Wikipedia, which words it nicely: "Another scientific rebuttal of the cosmological argument is the nature of time. The Big Bang theory states that it is the point in which all dimensions came into being, the start of both space and time. Then, the question "What was there before the universe?" makes no sense; the concept of "before" becomes meaningless when considering a situation without time, and thus the concepts of cause and effects so necessary to the cosmological argument no longer apply. This has been put forward by Stephen Hawking, who said that asking what occurred before the Big Bang is like asking what is north of the North Pole."

Some sort of Big Bang (the details are not completely certain) definitely took place, it's been scientifically proven with experiments and all that stuff

Like a leaky bucket the cosmological argument is flawed in so many ways it's not a very good proof for God.

05-12-2007	#7 (permalink)
Moniker42 Level 37 Bureaucrat Join Date: May 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 188	Re: Argument for God's Existance Umm... you guys' posts are too long to read, but by the looks of it you've been arguing about the cosmological/first cause argument? So the cosmological argument is: 1. Everything has a cause 2. A casual chain cannot go on forever 3. If you go all the way back to the beginning of the universe, something must have cause that 4. That cause must be God However there are several arguments that make this an extremely weak and unconvincing argument for the existence of the Western God (benevolent, omnipotent, omnipresent etc). Why does it have to be God? Why not a completely different kind of God or being? Why can a causal chain not go on forever? What causes God? To quote Wikipedia, which words it nicely: "Another scientific rebuttal of the cosmological argument is the nature of time. The Big Bang theory states that it is the point in which all dimensions came into being, the start of both space and time. Then, the question "What was there before the universe?" makes no sense; the concept of "before" becomes meaningless when considering a situation without time, and thus the concepts of cause and effects so necessary to the cosmological argument no longer apply. This has been put forward by Stephen Hawking, who said that asking what occurred before the Big Bang is like asking what is north of the North Pole." Some sort of Big Bang (the details are not completely certain) definitely took place, it's been scientifically proven with experiments and all that stuff Like a leaky bucket the cosmological argument is flawed in so many ways it's not a very good proof for God.