Warning: I like to rant about philosophy, so this could be a long drawl.
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There's a penguin in my pants that's just dying to meet you. Prove me wrong.

Dr. Seuss made a boulder fall on my car. Prove me wrong.

Saying "You can't prove God doesn't exist" is an important point. However, it's a matter of probability. I'm agnostic myself, though I lean more and more towards atheism, because Evolution seems to have an explanation for just about everything.

But about this whole "science vs. religion" thing -- I think that's a phrase coined by schoolyard debates. The phrase "science vs. religion" serves only one purpose: to discredit the notion of "religion," and to put "science" on a pedastal like it has all the answers.

Science is nothing more then the search for truth. Religion is nothing more then the search for truth (Plus dogma). Both use tools of reasoning -- however mangled they may be by emotion. Both use faith (Most "scientists" believe in evolution, even though the evidence for it is very complicated to understand).

Cut the rhetoric, folks. "Scientific law" is an appeal to authority, and you both skipped the part about *how* creation and/or evolution contradict these "laws."

bns: Read up on the concept of natural selection. I think you'll find it makes sense -- and the whole "laws of thermodynamics" gig doesn't get creationism anywhere.

Joshj: The entire point of creation is that it was a super-natural event, so whatever we say about natural laws has no bearing on its validity.

It's a matter of probability: Which was more likely, given what we observe in the grand scheme of things? Evolution or creation?

Pet peeve: I don't like the word "proof." We prove things like Area = pi*r^2, a^2 + b^2 = c^2, and e^(i*pi) = 1, etc. We don't prove that "she said this", "what the president really means is that", or "the meaning of life is this." On overarching matters of truth, philosophy, and -- yes -- of science (Hate to steal anyone's endgame word), there is not proof, there is only evidence.

There is very strong evidence that supports the theory of evolution. There is evidence that the current bug in my program at work is due to a mis-directed pointer somewhere -- and that's my current theory, so I'm hunting for that pointer, but I haven't proven it, because I don't have all the data, or at my puny mind can't keep track of it all, however good my debugger's output.

That said, I'm one of your folks who wants "proof." I know I can't have it, but I want to know what the "truth" really is, not what feels good or what I want it to be, so I constantly weigh evidence. The jury is still out, but right now the only witness with any semblance of credibility is the nihilistic scientist who says we're all apes, which in turn are fine-tuned lumps of dirt.

Doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but what can I say? I've never found a Christian apologist who makes a good case for God -- though I must say I was raised by some of the most intelligent Christians I've ever met.

The "believe, and the evidence will come" argument sounds swell -- and many of its subscribers shake their head when I bring up skeptical questions at church -- but, I mean, really. In a postmodern society, how can that perspective have weight? Any religion could say "believe, and the evidence will come." Evolution could say so. Once you "believe," you become emotionally involved, and "evidence" is easily found because you look for it (Oh! I found my keys! Thankyou God!).

SigmaX